Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« on: December 18, 2009, 10:23:25 AM »
Is there a way to crimp d-sub sockets without buying an expensive Crimping tool.  I've got a 44-pin socket, so pretty non-standard.  I've bought a crimp socket and pins, but can't force the pins through far enough with a jeweller's screwdriver.  Anyone got any smart ideas?
I'm trying to hookup an external soundcard direct to my patchbay. I've already tried soldering another connector on, but due to the number of pins it was quite fiddly, and some of the connections are duff.


CJ

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 02:30:37 AM »
never done anything but the 9 pin D sub, used nylon jawed mini vice,

take the cable assy into the store and "sneak - a - crimp."  :D

kind of like going into Safeway at 4 in the morning and chugging a beer in the produce section, been there, done that,  :D
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 02:33:07 AM by CJ »
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stickjam

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 01:09:01 PM »
I've never had a lot of luck with D-sub crimp connections--they often came undone for me--probably because I never used a really good crimp tool.  And I hate soldering the cup connections.  But I recently put together a bunch of Tascam DB25 cable snakes using crimp pin connectors as solder pins.  (enough of them that by the time I was done, I had the really strange color coding of the 36-pair cable memorized. :> )

I clamped a strip at a time in a ball-jointed mini-vise--holding them just by the pins, with the still attached metal strip helping to keep them all facing the same way.  I oriented them horizontally with the crimp tabs facing up.  Stripped the wires just 1/8" (3-4mm) and enerously tinned the wire ends as well as all the pins between the second (shorter) pair of crimp tabs.  Then I just remelted each wire end to a pin so that the insulation ends up inside the longer crimp tabs, which I simplly folded each over with needle nose pliers.  As long as you don't go nuts with the solder and get it dripping off the opposite side, the pins fit quite nicely in the housing--even if you didn't crimp the insulation tabs.  Having those crimp tabs sticking out helped in inserting the pins without a special tool; it gives a jeweler's screwdriver a nice platform to push the pin into place. 

bitman

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 01:41:28 PM »
I solder the suckers then pinch em with a needle nose.

That is when I have had to.

jsteiger

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 02:09:08 PM »
I solder the suckers then pinch em with a needle nose...
Yes, me too. It is not super fast but pretty reliable.
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matta

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 03:29:40 PM »
I solder the suckers then pinch em with a needle nose...
Yes, me too. It is not super fast but pretty reliable.

I third that, though I normally crimp first, solder later... people always say things in Africa are backwards  ;D

Matt
Matt Allison
www.matt-allison.com

Quote
We are not going to start thinking of ways to get an octopus to commit a crime, cause that just has failure written all over it – Earl J Hickey

analogical

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 03:50:14 PM »
Aye, I use a $14 pair of radio shack crimps, then solder the ends near the insulation. 

Don't overdo the solder; if you let solder creep all the way to the front of the pin, the part that contacts the post will lose its springy-ness, and can be pushed out of the molex the second time you insert it into something.

sahib

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 05:27:10 PM »

I don't see any point in crimping after soldering. At least if the cable breaks you can resolder it without wasting a crimp terminal.

However, after so many bad experiences I use solder bucket type. If I use crimp for, say molex, I first apply solder to the wire, crimp it and then apply a touch of solder  to the crimp so that the wire is soldered.

Rob Flinn

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2009, 06:12:47 PM »
I never solder any wires/cables that are going to be crimped or put in a screw up terminal.  I was discussing this with a friend who works with military radar systems, & he said that when solder is put under pressure it softens & over time, it's structure changes & can make the connection loose.  I think they call it cold flow.   Maybe it's a load of twaddle, but if you tin a stranded wire & pinch it in a pair of pliers.  The solder will go slightly powdery, & start to look crumbley.

In my experience, if you are using any crimp connectors they always seem to be better if one uses the correct crimping tool for the job.  I recently bought a Molex crimper that was quite inexpensive (£18), & there is a massive difference in the quality of the connections I'm able to make.

That said I normally use solder bucket Dsubs.   Once you have the technique it's pretty fast & not too shabby.
regards Rob

Sarcastic Sound

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2009, 07:06:34 PM »
do you have open frame pins or closed frame pins? the closed pins are also referred to as "machine pins"

If I know which you have I can direct you to an inexpensive crimp tool. the only way to make reliable connections that will stand the test of time is to use the right tool. 

I've made thousands of db-25's with crimp pins and find them more reliable than any solder connection when crimped properly. they use "mechanical connections" (crimped connectors) on the space shuttles at NASA and on all the military aircraft flying over our heads at this very moment. and in my personal experience have found that when dealing with large volumes of connectors that crimping is faster than soldering as well.

and just as a rant. you should NEVER have to solder over a crimped connector. if it's crimped properly you'll break the copper strands going into the crimp joint before you can pull the connection apart.

so open frame pins or machine pins?


peat

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 07:45:51 PM »


kind of like going into Safeway at 4 in the morning and chugging a beer in the produce section, been there, done that,  :D

nice!!

wish our supermarkets had beer in the same section as the food, i'd be all over that!
Can you have too many digital delays?

QUEEF BAG

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 07:55:14 PM »
I'll vote for the machine pin type. The crimp tool for those is only about $40.
They work well too, in my experience.  My machine type crimper is a Paladin PA1442
Cheap and good. And faster loading than my normal Amphenol crimper that cost 5 or 6
times more.

soldering crimps not a good idea
I used to do that with mogami cable or other real thin guage wire when doing
Elco or DL connectors 'cause that stuff will pull right out one of ten crimps.

Then - Duh...why didn't I see this before? Now i strip a longer length of bare wire
at the ends and fold it over so it is doubled up, twice as thick...then crimp that larger wad of wire.
Snug fit.
You should not have to do that with d-sub pins. Just those larger pin types.



Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 04:04:07 AM »
I'm not so confused about the solder or not to solder debate, but more how to get the damn pins firmly through the hole.  not sure if they are open or closed.  but these are the pins:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1206622


@Stickjam: i've tried forcing these though with a jeweler's screwdriver, but would need an enormous amount of force to get them through.  More than likely breaking the screwdriver (or my hand).  What do you mean by the "crimp tabs" which helped you force the pins through?

I've not crimped a d-sub before (only hundreds of CAT5 cables  :'().  But I was assuming that as I have a connector with an non-standard number of pins (44), i'd need a non-standard crimp tool.  Unfort the price of the tool is more than the cable, the patchbay and the soundcard combined, so not really economical.

this is the suggested crimp tool (at an eye watering £133)
http://uk.farnell.com/itw-mcmurdo/mp-600-hd/crimp-tool-d/dp/151226?in_merch=true&MER=i-9b10-00001460


Thanks for all your help!

12volts

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 04:25:01 AM »
OK. I used to be the technical director of an electronics company, until I had a stroke. We had 4 machines for crimping all sorts of contacts
including 'D' and high density 'D'. These machines were made by Kirsten in Switzerland - £3000 each

I would suggest you contact them, they will be able to supply high quality male/female pins and connector bodies for you. The crimped ends
will be perfect. Do the job right and don't bodge !!

Servicepower Ltd
Rosse Works
Moorhead Lane
Shipley
W. Yorks.
BD18 4JH

01274 207500

Speak to Rory O'Neil

QUEEF BAG

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 04:27:57 AM »
that type of pin does require the more expensive crimper.

you have to make sure the tabs are crimped all the way to the end, or
they will scrape their way through the passage making insertion difficult,
if possible at all.

if ya got a molex crimper...naw, forget those pins, get machine pins and the
crimper for those is pretty cheap.
once you start using it you will be glad you went for it.

your current investment in pins can't be so great that you want to cause yourself
a great deal of misery, angst and outbursts.

set yer self up with machine pins.

or solder cup is no investment in  a crimper, but ya gotta do a couple to get
the hang of doing a good job.  It's all in the prep.  stripping and trimming the
cable for a smooth, nice looking build. also shrink over every wire and it's
solder cup (that's one of the places i like to use clear shrink, so ya can see yer
connection)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 04:32:03 AM by QUEEF BAG »

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 05:38:35 AM »
So i've already tried soldering this connection and it was a nightmare.  44 pins = too much.  There's a problem with some connections right in the middle, which means desoldering and resoldering. :(  Hence my thought of crimping it. 
Could you send me a link for the Molex crimper you're talking about as all the Molex crimpers I can see stocked by Farnell are >£100.
Thanks!

Sarcastic Sound

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 01:32:35 PM »

Re: Crimping without an expensive Crimp Tool New
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 04:51:57 PM »
genius!  ;D

Edit:  I think my problem might come from a school-boy error.  Wrong pins.  Looking at the data sheet for the d-sub I have again, these pins seem to have a bit of a metal lug at the top of the pin which is stopping insertion.  Having only ever crimped RJ45s before, not d-subs, I assumed the crimp tool would also play some part in the insertion and hence force the pin through, and the problem was lack of the correct tool.  But no, checking again, and it seems: wrong pins. Duh!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 05:44:06 PM by mathsieve »


 

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