EQ'ing studio monitors

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martthie_08

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Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
685
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
ok, I've slowly been adding acoustic treatment to my control room but there are still some issues in the 40-200 Hz area I'd like to adress. Measurements at various listening positions have revealed some frequencies that are always problematic in my room. Just for kicks I added a bit of Digi EQ3 at said frequencies and I have to say it makes a rather nice positive improvement and measurements verify this. Now, as I usually have a hybrid console / daw mix concept, I am looking for something transparent to hook up between the output of the console and the studio speaker power amp, is there anything that can be recommended? I have also been looking at KRK ergo, which looks pretty useful.
 
Mike, tube traps sound interesting, I haven't looked into diy'ing these yet.

Yes, acoustic treatment comes first, but I feel I have already come a long way with the existing treatments and there are just some very specific frequencies I'd like to treat.

The main speakers are PMC TB2S+ with Bryston 3B and small speakers are Auratones or NS-10 (I switch these occasionally).

I am really interested as into what people are using for EQ, it is being done in studio facilities all over the place.

thanks, Marten
 
Behringer DEQ2496 is by far THE cheapest option and is supposed to have a rather good digital section inside. Analog in/out section (opamps, caps) and PSU can be upgraded if you're not afraid of some SMD...

here more info...> http://www.awdiy.com/

And yes...room treatment first although there will always be some troublesome standing waves left if your room is not specially designed.

 
Behringer DEQ2496 is by far THE cheapest option and is supposed to have a rather good digital section inside. Analog in/out section (opamps, caps) and PSU can be upgraded if you're not afraid of some SMD...

interesting, this looks really useful, I will try to fetch one and try it out. I will need pretty high Q on some frequencies, will see how that turns out with all the phase issus related to that.

And yes...room treatment first although there will always be some troublesome standing waves left if your room is not specially designed.

exactly. I am sure the majority of us are working in control rooms not built up specifically for linear freq response. Anyways, thanks for the heads up, I'll report back when I have some results! Maybe I'll also diy a pair of tube traps if I find a good construction guide, will google that a bit now...

cheers, Marten
 
martthie_08 said:
I will need pretty high Q on some frequencies, will see how that turns out with all the phase issus related to that.

It has 10 filters with a Q of up till 1/10th octave. I use one myself. I've bought all upgrade parts some years ago but so far no time to do the mods...
 
Hi,


  I used to work for a well known soft-dome monitor manufacturer, and have done shitloads of installs and line-ups all around the world. We also built a large number of very fine rooms, and had to sort out aload more( normally for peanuts). You are ALWAYS better off addressing the inadequacies of the room. If there are standing waves/cancellations in the bass, then they will still be there when you eq . . . . and, since they move as you move, you will be affecting the response somewhere else in the room. If there is a difference form left to right, live with it if you can, especially in the mid/top. Any changes you make to one side only will effect the stereo image due to phase shifts, even if they measure the same. Worst case is obviously adding to one side and subtracting from the other in the same band.


  I find tube traps tend to be very variable in effectiveness. and very expensive. There is no substitute for proper basstrapping, but cost and space are always your enemy! I have my own way of doing it, but I am not about to give it all away, or worse, stir up the hornets nest of opinion as to what is best. I'd rather have a row with a C37-toting HiFi twat than argue about acoustics! As with everything it seems, it is the law of diminishing returns that applies, with the greatest difference happening with what you do first.


  If you have a small room, you are always better off with smaller monitors. Period.


    Good luck!


      ANdyP
 
strangeandbouncy said:
  I used to work for a well known soft-dome monitor manufacturer, and have done shitloads of installs and line-ups all around the world. We also built a large number of very fine rooms, and had to sort out aload more( normally for peanuts). You are ALWAYS better off addressing the inadequacies of the room. If there are standing waves/cancellations in the bass, then they will still be there when you eq . . . . and, since they move as you move, you will be affecting the response somewhere else in the room. If there is a difference form left to right, live with it if you can, especially in the mid/top. Any changes you make to one side only will effect the stereo image due to phase shifts, even if they measure the same. Worst case is obviously adding to one side and subtracting from the other in the same band.


  I find tube traps tend to be very variable in effectiveness. and very expensive. There is no substitute for proper basstrapping, but cost and space are always your enemy! I have my own way of doing it, but I am not about to give it all away, or worse, stir up the hornets nest of opinion as to what is best. I'd rather have a row with a C37-toting HiFi twat than argue about acoustics! As with everything it seems, it is the law of diminishing returns that applies, with the greatest difference happening with what you do first.


  If you have a small room, you are always better off with smaller monitors. Period.


    Good luck!


      ANdyP

All true, but where talking about small budget rooms here. For the price of an acoustic engineer I can build myself a lot of bass traps and what not. Having done just THAT, and by doing so having reduced the room size about 30% (!!) I've still some very big (+15db) peaks. What to do? I don't WANT to live with this and there's no physical space left for any more bass traps.
I don't need a flat response in the whole room, just a sweetspot where I can mix.
Room EQ-ing has given me pretty good results in several small rooms I've worked in. No boosting, just cutting with narrow notches, and done by ear, not measurements...This way I was able to create a sweet spot where most music actually sounded better whith EQ engaged. If there are phase problems on certain standing waves (sound moving left/right when EQ-ing) forget it. Leave THAT frequency as is. Just do the ones that don't have this problem.

 
I hear you, dude,



    but in my opinion eq'ing is not really the answer. Still having 15dB peaks sounds extreme if you have done some treatment. What frequencies are we talking about? What speakers are you using, and how big is the room? and what shape? What is ceiling height? Any large glass doors/windows/untreeted surfaces? what's on the ceiling? What's on the floor? What are the six winning lottery numbers? Do these shoes go with this bag? . . . .


Also, what did you do as treatment? just slapping up rockwool will not really do . . .


      AndyP


 
 
An old friend of mine from back when I used to work and live in CT, sells room treatments.

http://www.realtraps.com/

I have never used or checked out his product, but I know and trust the guy.

JR
 
thanks for all the input, I am well aware that EQ'ing is not ideal, but I like what I hear with my experiments and would like to give it a shot. This is also part of the reason why I posted here and not on John Sayers forum, I am amazed at how much cash people can pull out there to build a space for say "songwriting", not even speaking of the bigger studio builds. I appreciate all the comments, but let's face it, at the momentary situation with the industry neither I or my clients have the $$$ to get this done the way it should be under ideal circumstances, and I really want to keep my studio rates down so that young bands can afford making a record. After all, most projects will go out to a mastering studio, I mostly track and mix.

My situation is not so drastic as radiance's, the room is rather large with 40 sqare meters and 3.8m ceilings. The peaks and dips are more like +/- 4 dB max. and each speaker has three different frequencies between 40 and 200 Hz I'd like to take care of. The midrange and high end is not bad, there are some reflections from the windows that smear the stereo image, but I'll adress that some other time.
 
strangeandbouncy said:
I hear you, dude,



    but in my opinion eq'ing is not really the answer. Still having 15dB peaks sounds extreme if you have done some treatment. What frequencies are we talking about? What speakers are you using, and how big is the room? and what shape? What is ceiling height? Any large glass doors/windows/untreeted surfaces? what's on the ceiling? What's on the floor? What are the six winning lottery numbers? Do these shoes go with this bag? . . . .


Also, what did you do as treatment? just slapping up rockwool will not really do . . .




      AndyP


 


Aahh, the dude naming has begun  ;)  Let's make on thing clear: I'm not asking any advice here. I've read an awe full lot on this subject. I don't consider myself an expert but I know what I'm doing.
All I'm saying is: in all rooms (3 to be precise) I've had, the EQ did help as a last resort.
Most of the time when I post this statement on acoustics forums there will be "acoustic professionals"  telling me this is NOT DONE, do like we say. Than I say: I've already done so, but in my room (just an ordinary rectangular room in an apartment) there are still some standing waves. There's no room left for more treatment, yes it's not "just slapping up rockwool",I do have proper speakers, not too big for the room, proper placement ....what's left to do? And from than on there will be some kind of loop going on. All the same advice will be given again, what did you use, what speakers....man, I've answered these questions years ago when I started investigating this subject....


Andy: did you ever try EQ-ing a room?

 
may not be the best option but having parallel walls causes all kind of problems, This I am sure you know. but contractors and the rest of the world loves to look at parallel walls. Any chance you can angle a wall so it is parallel might have to build frame and dry wall it to an existing wall.
 
pucho812 said:
may not be the best option but having parallel walls causes all kind of problems, This I am sure you know. but contractors and the rest of the world loves to look at parallel walls. Any chance you can angle a wall so it is parallel might have to build frame and dry wall it to an existing wall.

strangeandbouncy said:
parallel walls in the ratio of 2:1 . . . . . even worse, esp with height @same as width!

Edit I ment to say Any chance you can angle a wall so it is not parallel? might have to build frame and dry wall it to an existing wall
 
I used a analyzer and a graphic EQ to "flatter" the response of my room/speakers combo.

Although not ideal (I still need to do some acoustic treatment but don't have the money, plus I might be moving soon) it has improved the quality of my recordings and mixes a lot. However, I'm still struggling to really trust what I'm hearing in the room.

J
 

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