TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« on: January 24, 2010, 07:12:54 PM »
I hope this isn't going to ruffle anyone's feathers but I was wondering if anyone who has built a TG clone could let me know how it sounds.  Now, I haven't heard an original EMI unit, or one of the new Chandler ones.  I've only heard the VST plugin, which is damned good for a plugin.  But I can't help noticing that the controls seem different on the clone to both the original (which lacks HPF, input and attack) and the Chandler version (which lacks HPF, hold, and attack).  So I'm wondering whether it's worth spending 200E on a case and board, which might not produce the effect I'm looking for. 


sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 07:28:08 PM »
Hi, I've self built the circuit in three guises now, and also done direct A/B's with vintage EMI units. I'd say the results are good, but you can't clone the EMI transformers! :) and that's a big part of the original tone. (Transfer console version)

The Chandler versions transformer steps up on the front end that drives the limiter, but has become a mix classic in it's own right. The EMI console version is way more subtle.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 07:38:32 PM by sintech »

strangeandbouncy

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 07:38:18 PM »
I have used chandler pre's and comp, and also an original TG on several occasions. Chandler is really good stuff, but just doesn't quite have the mojo imho. I think that the mixbus is also critical to "that" sound, but trannies must surely be crucial too. I also love the crude but effective TG eq! I thought that some GArdners transformer stuff featured, but I could be wrong. They come up from time to time, and iirc, someone has the blueprints.



         If you can build something that sounds at least as good as the chandler stuff, you wont be wasting your time, even of it doesn't quite measure up. Anyway, the chance of you actually finding an original to compare is rather low to say the least . . .



   `Kindes rgeards,


    ANdyP
. . . . RUH ROH . . . . .

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 07:47:35 PM »

To give you the size difference against a Carnhill (as used on early chandler TG1's/1272 output) verses 70's EMI trafos  :P




« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 07:49:32 PM by sintech »

strangeandbouncy

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 07:49:54 PM »



Ouch! that's some weight of iron. Did you see if Grdners were on input, or am `i mistaken?
. . . . RUH ROH . . . . .

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 08:02:38 PM »



Ouch! that's some weight of iron. Did you see if Grdners were on input, or am `i mistaken?

All the trafos are unbranded apart from EMI part numbers, but the outputs look like giant 70's Marinair's to the eye

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 02:32:11 PM »
What are the EMI part numbers?

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 07:06:11 PM »



Ouch! that's some weight of iron. Did you see if Grdners were on input, or am `i mistaken?

The inputs look like Gardners in form, they've now been taken over buy Greenwoods who still wind some replacements to original specs..the output has different studs on the top board (to the one pictured with the Carnhill for scale), but it's actually the same number, although the issue number differs to the console outputs.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 07:21:46 PM by sintech »

strangeandbouncy

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 07:47:16 PM »
Sintech,


  do you mean that Greenwoods have taken over gardners transformer production, or EMI transformer production?



     KIndest regards,


       ANdyP
. . . . RUH ROH . . . . .

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 06:04:28 AM »
Sintech,


  do you mean that Greenwoods have taken over gardners transformer production, or EMI transformer production?



     KIndest regards,


       ANdyP

Greenwoods must've bought out Gardners, and kept winding what I guess would earn them revenue. All EMI console production finished in 1974/5


simonsez

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 06:47:38 AM »
i thought the original was transformerless ?

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 07:55:15 AM »
i thought the original was transformerless ?

in the context of the console it is, but surrounded by iron, input, insert send and return.

The transfer console version is slightly different and has remote iron. I think the idea is the mojo is more in the oversized trafos, rather than the circuit.

Really we don't know too much about anything EMI related! heheh but for me that makes it way more fun than Neve!

strangeandbouncy

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 08:20:16 AM »
Can anyone get their hands on the iron for CJ to decipher perhaps?
. . . . RUH ROH . . . . .

dustbro

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 08:30:23 AM »
Can anyone get their hands on the iron for CJ to decipher perhaps?

I saw one on ebay about a month ago. almost grabbed it so it could be dissected.

edanderson

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2010, 09:18:15 AM »
Greenwoods must've bought out Gardners, and kept winding what I guess would earn them revenue. All EMI console production finished in 1974/5

not sure how this relates, but avon magnetics in the uk has most of the gardners units on file.  i remember asking them for a quote on some of the large octal can transformers many years ago and they were >100GBP each.

ed

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 10:16:23 AM »
Greenwoods is a dead end, Peter (sinestaraudio) just gave them a ring, and they don't Audio trafos, they took over Gardners M.O.D work.

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 01:56:30 PM »
Huh. And here I was thinking I would build it without trannies.

Would it not make sense to build this thing without trannies then?
"Kind of like going into Safeway at 4 in the morning and chugging a beer in the produce section; been there, done that." - CJ

"We're not making an atomic bomb, just cooking a few electrons." - PRR

sintech

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 02:08:37 PM »
Huh. And here I was thinking I would build it without trannies.

Would it not make sense to build this thing without trannies then?

It's nice to have all options, the Chandler way with Neve iron is a Parallel compression classic in it's own right, but one sound

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 08:21:47 PM »
Er, maybe it's a matter of semantics, but "vibe" and "character" from this circuit I would expect from only the iron. My understanding is that with no iron, the limiter is more subtle than with.

Am I understanding correctly?

 ???
"Kind of like going into Safeway at 4 in the morning and chugging a beer in the produce section; been there, done that." - CJ

"We're not making an atomic bomb, just cooking a few electrons." - PRR

Re: TG1 - advice from any one who has built it...
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2010, 11:13:50 PM »
I would think the vibe and character have most to do with the circuit as a whole...rather than seperate parts. One vs the other, maybe transformers contribute in some way more. Distortion?

The pictures i've seen of the TG 12413, there are no transformers in the module, but yes, they would be proceeded and followed with iron in the desk(i'm assuming)...so it's fair to assume there were transformers involved. As for which is better, i would think whichever way agree's with the overall design concept.

.002


 

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