Monitor Stands

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to help a friend with his monitoring situation. He mainly writes for library in a small home studio (approx 2m x 2.5m) and has yamaha HS50's and KRKV6 monitors. His main problem is generally lack of low end definition and not really a good sense of stereo, i.e sound placement. I know that the Yammys don't have a great range in the low end and prob need propping up with a sub, but I'm kind of thinking that things could be improved drastically with some decent solid spkr stands.

I was thinking of building some using 18mm mdf to make a box section and then filling with sand and wondered if this would work, or would heavy steel be better? Also regarding the bases, is spiked feet the way to go or just ensuring a good contact/stability with the floor enough? Obviously don't want them rocking about, loosing energy etc. Would good spiked screws or do i need something a bit more esoteric (apart from dousing his system in C37  ;D)?

Any thoughts appreciated

Chris

I built something similar a few years back. 18mm MDF, and filled it with bags full of sand. I didn't use spikes, I used that kind of auralex foam between the speaker and the stand. Worked really well. I haven't got them anymore though, I sold it together with the nearfields.

Whatever their manufacturers claim, speaker stands don't make a night and day difference.
I would look at many other things before, such as positioning and room acoustics. Now if the speakers are set on top of a chest of drawers, I would insert some insulating material to stop resonance.

helterbelter said:

I built something similar a few years back. 18mm MDF, and filled it with bags full of sand. I didn't use spikes, I used that kind of auralex foam between the speaker and the stand. Worked really well. I haven't got them anymore though, I sold it together with the nearfields.

Click to expand...

Thanks Helterbelter. Did you build them just because you needed stands, or was it in reaction to improving performance?

Chris

I needed something sturdy to put them on. So I decided to build the stands. This was pretty cheap, alltogether about 30 euro, paint included. The foam was something I had laying around. It's exactly the same material as the Auralex thingies. But then cheap, haha.

Right, thanks. That was my main concern with my friends setup. His stands are just not solid so think that there is energy being lost by reaction to the speaker movement.

Chris

To make it easier you can use pvc pipe and fill that with sand. You can find mounts that will work in a hardware stores plumbing section. I saw plans somewhere on the internet. Oh yeah, seal it with silicone or somethin before you pour the sand.

You can use MDF or other nice wood for the base and top, painted PVC (caulked and filled with sand) for the tower between the platforms, and a couple pieces of thread-all to tighten up the base/top/pvc:


Some sticky furniture pads on the bottom will help a little and I have used the rubber-foam exercise pad cut to fit for isolation between speaker and the stand-platform.

This whole thing can be done pretty economically with everything available from your local HW store...

I did the PVC pipe plan with the speaker platforms atop spikes sunk in the sand. Works quite well, and was very inexpensive.

chrispbass said:

Right, thanks. That was my main concern with my friends setup. His stands are just not solid so think that there is energy being lost by reaction to the speaker movement.

Chris

Click to expand...

Please note that helterbelter has not answered your question regarding any sonic improvement. He just says that his speakers would not fall on the floor with his sturdy stands. Your hope in sonic improvement may just be wishful thinking...

Thanks for your thoughts Abbey.
Perhaps I should have been a little clearer in my initial post when mentioning possible improvements expected with the stands. My friend has been using quite spindly home hifi type stands that do have some movement so the speaker could move (albeit slightly) in reaction to cone movement. I'm not necessarily expecting miracles but rather thinking that a good solid(weighty) platform for the speakers when used in conjunction with some foam isolation would at least give a good benchmark and hopefully remove something from the equation when trying to optimise listening conditions.

What I'm trying to do is to get back to basics so at least simple (cheap too) steps can be taken to get a bit closer to providing the best listening conditions for my friends setup (process of elimination etc). I wasn't suggesting that this was the only factor in getting a better sounding setup as the acoustics of the room will really decide the best listening environment.

I welcome any more suggestions

Chris

abbey road d enfer said:

chrispbass said:

Right, thanks. That was my main concern with my friends setup. His stands are just not solid so think that there is energy being lost by reaction to the speaker movement.

Chris

Click to expand...

Please note that helterbelter has not answered your question regarding any sonic improvement. He just says that his speakers would not fall on the floor with his sturdy stands. Your hope in sonic improvement may just be wishful thinking...

Click to expand...

Haha, yes, you're correct.

Well, I didn't have anything to compare the stands with in the first place. Before I built the stands I only had the mixingconsole to put the speakers on, and this was a bit resonant. But I always had doubts about the real benefit of spikes, expensive stands,  or Auralex foam pads, compared to costs. These are way too expensive in my eyes, compared to the cost of the materials. So, I just built something sturdy, and it did work. The reason for my post, is because this is a cheap alternative to expensive stands, with the materials Chris mentioned. As said before, my stands were built for less than 30 euro. Although I must mention that I took the sand from my backgarden, haha 

abbey road d enfer said:

Whatever their manufacturers claim, speaker stands don't make a night and day difference.

Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what latitude you are at. Where I am they do. If the speakers have any low end to speak of, decoupling them from the structure makes a huge (IMO) improvement. I have 500lbs of sand under each of my ATC100A's. I've always put my speakers in sand. I wouldn't have it any other way. It won't make bad speakers into good speakers but it REALLY helps tighten up the low end.

Gold said:

I guess it depends on what latitude you are at. Where I am they do. If the speakers have any low end to speak of, decoupling them from the structure makes a huge (IMO) improvement. I have 500lbs of sand under each of my ATC100A's. I've always put my speakers in sand. I wouldn't have it any other way. It won't make bad speakers into good speakers but it REALLY helps tighten up the low end.

Click to expand...

Guys, guys, guys thanks for your replys so far, very much appreciated.

@Paul, are you sitting your speaker directly in the sand, i.e no plinth on your stand? Basically an upright sandpit...have you any photos?

Cheers

Chris

chrispbass said:

@Paul, are you sitting your speaker directly in the sand, i.e no plinth on your stand? Basically an upright sandpit...have you any photos?

Click to expand...

Correct. I'm using two large food service bins under each speaker. There is a piece of 3/4" ply under the speakers that sits in the sand but does not touch the container. It's important to not have any direct mechanical path the the structure.

The problem with sand is that it's hard to control. It wants to come out from under corners if you try to put something on the sand surface.

For bookshelf speakers I like a bucket of sand for the base with a filled 4" PVC pipe stuck in it. It should be cut to length for speaker height. Then attach a piece of 3" PVC to a plinth for the speakers. Then seat the 3" piece in the sand in the 4" pole so they don't touch. That way everything is decoupled. Works like a charm.

Interesting idea Paul, thanks for the info. 

Chris

To say that sand has no direct mechanical path from the speaker to the tub is a bit of a misnomer, we are merely exploiting the absorptive properties of sand as it takes the energy from the speaker and converts it to heat.

1st law of thermodynamics!