US Census form

It asks us who is living in our dwellings on April 1st.
But there were all sorts of news reports last week about how few people had sent their forms before the April 1st deadline.
If they want to know who is there on the 1st, how can you answer it before?  And why would you make the mailing deadline the same day as the count day?
I waited until the first and was able to accurately answer the questions and mail the form.
I mean, what if my ticket were punched on the 31st, and I had mailed my form earlier with speculative answers? 
Am I just having an Andy Rooney moment here?
Mike

No I pondered this at length.

The deadline day is not April 1st... that is "census" day (whatever that means) and inferred to get people to file early and often. I have seen several different supposed deadlines reported in the press.

They will have temporary workers chasing down these forms through July or so, so the wording on the from will be correct over most of the active life of the form. Further, wording the question, "how many will be" on April 1, may discourage late filers, more than "how many were", which is grammatically correct to later filers.
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Is it just me, or are others irritated by the census advertising campaign?

I have seen ads claiming we need to file census forms so we will know how many teachers to hire, how many highways to build, how many hospitals to build, how many doctors to hire, even to insure that we get our "fair" share of government largess.  Not one ad comes close to mentioning the true reason for the census.

I guess in their playbook the ends justify the means, and the population is too stupid to understand the truth. I wish the ads weren't so clearly misrepresenting the census, and misinforming the population. The government should be held to a higher standard for truth in advertising, while even commercial advertising couldn't get away with some of that misdirection.

JR

PS: Did anybody else notice how far to the left, Obama's first pitch was yesterday?

I would really like to know how much of our hard earned tax money has been spent in Census advertising dollars this time around. The TV and radio spots have been absolutely ridiculous around here. It must a number with many, many zeros behind it. Besides the regular form, we got a post card too. No wonder we are a broke Nation.

Again, our over stuffed Government, hard at work.

Hey, maybe we could do a Government study on the actual cost of the Census and get some of that $$.

Jeff

This is all documented and reported...  Calculated as per person numbers, I think the advertising works out to around $1 per person..  total budget for census is around $50 per person. It also costs about $50 for one personal visit, so they are already over budget on me (2 visits so far).

I mailed mine back before April 1. The census folks paid the post office some $25k (one of the smarter things they did) to track these forms as they move through the mail system using barcodes and the post office computer system. So hopefully they know I am compliant, and won't visit me again.

Can you imagine a private business budgeting $50 per just to count people? That would never happen because it doesn't make business sense... Admittedly many aspects of government can't be run like a business, but IMO this one could, and for a small fraction of $50 a head. 

The scary thing, this is hardly worth mentioning as obscene as it is, compared to what their other hand is doing.

JR

It's in the Constitution.  I don't see why people are getting all bent out of shape about it.

JohnRoberts said:

...The scary thing, this is hardly worth mentioning as obscene as it is, compared to what their other hand is doing...

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Very good point.

Scodiddly said:

It's in the Constitution.  I don't see why people are getting all bent out of shape about it.

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I am not bent out of shape by the Census in particular. I am bent out of shape and disgusted by the US Government as a whole.

Everyone that I know in America has cut way back on their spending. I have so many friends that are out of work. Many are on the brink of loosing their homes. We have all become very careful of our spending. Everyone but Uncle Sam that is.

Jeff

Yeah Jeff, too many just don't get it. To them government = the solution to every problem. Lemmings being led to bondage. By far the biggest fear of the founders.

Scodiddly said:

It's in the Constitution.  I don't see why people are getting all bent out of shape about it.

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I somehow doubt the founding fathers were thinking super bowl ads for the census.

This is just a glowing example of the gross mismanagement, and gamesmanship whenever government takes the reins over anything.

The fact that it is in the constitution and has a very specific purpose regarding representative apportionment, is the one thing never  mentioned in any of the census advertisements. I wish it were.

Like I said, this is chump change... no worries.

I don't feel like making a list of what's really bothering me now, I'll save that for november...

JR

JohnRoberts said:

This is just a glowing example of the gross mismanagement, and gamesmanship whenever government takes the reins over anything.

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Indeed.  We should get out of the war business as well - two wars still going on from the previous administration, both been going badly for several years now.  That's a hell of a lot of money we could put to better use in our own country.

Scodiddly said:

JohnRoberts said:

This is just a glowing example of the gross mismanagement, and gamesmanship whenever government takes the reins over anything.

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Indeed.  We should get out of the war business as well - two wars still going on from the previous administration, both been going badly for several years now.  That's a hell of a lot of money we could put to better use in our own country.

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Funny, war is the one thing IMO too important to sub contract out, The Brit's used merc's against us in our little squabble and that tuned out poorly for them.

The fledgling democracy in Iraq is messy, as they usually are at this stage, but not what I'd call a war that is "going badly"... Unless you are looking at it from the POV of the bad guys who got their ass kicked out of Dodge (and Fallujah, and Anbar, and..).

Afghanistan is troubling... the decisions to provide marginal support, but telegraph a firm drawdown date beginning in july '11, means anyone on the ground with half a brain is already calculating who will really be large and in charge after we pull out. Some of the recent posturing from Karzai sounds inconsistent with a long term relationship with us.

I think Mccystal and Patreus are some of the smartest guys in the room, but they have a Herculean task. I wish us all luck. It's going to take more than the world is doing now to turn that place around in another year.

Their primary cash crop is still poppies for opium.

I hope I'm wrong about the official plan. Afghanistan is winnable (IMO), but it will take more than ballistic military effort. They need a real economy to stand up a honest government, to stand up an army and police force to provide order and rule of law. We can't even make our economy work here. 

Maybe Karzai needs to pass a stimulus bill.


JR

Well at least the loonies would get up and clap.

I think the founders were ABSOLUTELY thinking about Super Bowl ads when the wrote the census into the constitution.  I think they were thinking about blimps and the internet and leaflets dropped from spaceships. I think they would endorse ANY means necessary to get an accurate count.

The very existence of our country is ENTIRELY BASED on the concept of NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.  Our system of representation is ENTIRELY BASED on census data. It has been since day one.

Yes, the ads should say this as clear as day.  Does it matter that they don't? I don't really think so. The ads say whatever they think will motivate people to fill out the form. Is the purpose of advertising to educate and inform? No.  The purpose of advertising is to get people to buy your product.

Now, on the topic of the "value" of the product.  You think it costs too much? What's your solution?  What's the census worth to you?  In 2000, the US government spent $133 million in advertising and completely reversed a three decade trend of non response thus saving taxpayers $90 million in overall census costs.  

You think it's being mismanaged?  Why?  Because money is spent on it?  Again, what's it worth to you? Also, to call the census mismanaged is a bit irresponsible considering the results aren't in to judge.

I never post on political topics here and the reason is that it is too hard to do so without sounding disrespectful of many people on this forum that deserve nothing but respect.  I broke my rule today because the reactionary "Tea Baggers" in this country are officially OUT OF HAND.  They see a price tag on something and decide it's too much without offering either evidence of mismanagement or ANY form of alternative plan.

So with my utmost respect, I ask you... Since we all agree that the census is one of the most important concepts of our Constitution, how, exactly would you change this process?

<-*ducks under desk for cover*->

Of course the census is important.  It is in Article 1.  I could not understand the fuss about the date.  I'm not obsessed about dying n' junk, but I thought the media fuss last week was silly.
Silly just like how the census has been advertised itself- "get yours".  I think the core problem is that there is $400 odd billion flowing into the federal budget that gets re-doled out.  The dough should stay locally, where the local people and politicians know better what to do with it, and a greedy middleman machine is eliminated.

And no talk yet about statistical sampling.  That is NOT in the Constitution, and neither are racial questions.  They care if someone is Mexican or Brazillian, but not German?
Mike
PS: what did tea party people do regarding the census?  I missed that one.  Are they huffy because they could not get any of those $18.75 per hour jobs?

It softens the blow a bit if you think of the census costing $5/year/person.  But it still seems high.  I always find it interesting how many people go ballistic about government spending when it's not related to the military.  Fear is a powerful thing. 

sodderboy said:

PS: what did tea party people do regarding the census?  I missed that one.  Are they huffy because they could not get any of those $18.75 per hour jobs?

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http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0405/tea-party-cost-republicans-census/
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/04/05/census_response
http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/index.aspx

Nobody disputes the merit of a population count for the purpose of representative apportionment, but this 2010 version started to smell a little funny when the white house took it away from the Commerce dept coincident with Sen Judd Greg(R) being considered for appointment. It appears someone was concerned that a centrist republican, who was moderate enough to get considered for a democratic administration cabinet appointment. was too moderate for that particular task.

I find it remarkable that in 2010 we have barely advanced beyond riding around on horseback and counting heads. Then if lucky we get 7 out of 10 to respond. I am tempted to ask, how do we know we missed 3 (think about it)?  Using the post office barcode is the most sensible thing they did this time, and that only cost us $25k... I suspect there are more things like that we could do instead of sending census workers to knock on my door (2 times so far at est. $57 per visit).

It is useful to get a physical count to use as a starting point for the statistical rounding up. I am not a statistics expert but is there a huge difference in accuracy between 60% response rate and 70%? Since these numbers are used for proportionate sharing of a fixed number of representatives in congress, that actual number doesn't really matter, only that the errors in these counts are reasonably smooth and similar between geographic regions so the ratios are accurate. Note: even a count performed over 4 months will have errors, while less so, if we honestly report only who was living where on that one date. 

In the grand scheme of things I don't much care if my state gains or loses a vote in congress...  While I can't ignore that some are probably hoping to sway the result to favor demographic groups expected to be friendly to their agenda.

People who aren't responsible enough to file a census form, and those who aren't citizens, probably don't vote either, but lets count them all. That way we'll know how many highways to build. 

JR

PS: Today's new government vocabulary term for people to learn is VAT (OK its an acronym)...  wait for it... it's coming. The Europeans already know this one, so don't help my US neighbors.
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PPS: My complaint is not that they are spending money, but "how" they are spending it...  Regarding military spending all those hellfire missles at $60-70k a pop are adding up too, but oh what a spectacular pop they make.  ;D and probably a lot more cost effective than humping around in the mountains and taking casualties. 

I wouldn't mind popping a few hell fires into those somali pirates. One of them was so stupid, he fired at a US warship the other night.. it was dark and he thought he'd hijack it. That didn't end well for him.

JohnRoberts said:

(2 times so far at est. $57 per visit).

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Out of curiosity, where does this $57 figure come from?  At $18.75 an hour, did one census worker spend three hours on your doorstep or did three census workers spend an hour or... 

gotta love the fact I got a letter a week prior to getting the form to say I was getting the form. Then the day I got the form I also got a second letter saying I have not filled out the form yet. wast of postage if they get charged for that.

pucho812 said:

gotta love the fact I got a letter a week prior to getting the form to say I was getting the form. Then the day I got the form I also got a second letter saying I have not filled out the form yet. wast of postage if they get charged for that.

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That was what I was saying. I'm sure they have to pay for the postage. After all, isn't the USPS broke???

The shop across the biz park from me just went BK about 2 months ago. They repaired and service firetrucks. They had so many local municipalities screwing them, they had no cash flow and had to close. That is pathetic. These guys were busy all the time and our local Government basically put them out of business. Then you see a news story about all the surplus money that the local municipalities have for local road maintenance and construction. It was unreal.

mushy said:

JohnRoberts said:

(2 times so far at est. $57 per visit).

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Out of curiosity, where does this $57 figure come from?  At $18.75 an hour, did one census worker spend three hours on your doorstep or did three census workers spend an hour or... 

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It was cited from memory. I saw it in a newspaper article (WSJ) weeks ago as a estimate of average cost per visit. Upon reflection it might have been $54 not $57 but in that ballpark.  I suspect they are counting total cost for the employee, transportation allowance for the vehicles used, etc. Seems it would be much lower in densely populated areas, and more in rural areas. I am still wondering why I was visited at all. I live across the street from the post office, and neither of these were follow up visits, but once to hand deliver the form, and once before that to ask me my address???

I don't expect to see any money returned to treasury if they get a higher than expected response rate...

Like I said in the grand scheme of all the other spending, this is chump change, and in light of the economic doldrums, this make work is better than paying people unemployment, but it's still painful to watch.

JR