nrgrecording

adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« on: May 08, 2010, 12:30:04 PM »
Hi.

Iam looking for LCDs with max. 42mm width... not a character type but a grafical one.

The ones in the SSL are looking good. Background illumination is a must have.

(thats for a 24 track scribble strip for my old harrison console... it should show the tracknames from the daw. Controlling 24 of these lcds only works with grafical displays  because the software/code is written for a BIG lcd... but its possible to seperate the information over 8 LCDs... thats why I need a grafical one - not a character type lcd)

Something like this would be cool.



Thanks,
Frank.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 07:13:29 AM by nrgrecording »
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°


sahib

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 12:51:08 PM »
That is  a vacuum fluorescant type not  LCD.

If you are looking to replace an existing/broken one you must get the identical type. You can not just get any graphical LCD and drop it in as a replacement.

Did you write the software? How are you going to split the code over 8 display?

You don't just write codes for a "big" LCD. You write it for the specific type of display you are using.

Gives us more info.

nrgrecording

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 01:52:06 PM »
That is  a vacuum fluorescant type not  LCD.
If you are looking to replace an existing/broken one you must get the identical type. You can not just get any graphical LCD and drop it in as a replacement.

Oh - what a pity. I don't want to replace it... i don't own the SSL. Is an SSL a good console?  ???  :P

Did you write the software? How are you going to split the code over 8 display?

Iam too stupid to write the software. But a nice guy "Phil" wrote the driver for this. Its for the ucapps midibox MIOS system (midi controller stuff)
It works like this:

Quote
; $Id: app_lcd.inc 69 2008-02-01 00:20:18Z tk $
;
; MIOS Custom LCD Driver Example
; for up to 8 * DOG GLCD (every display provides a resolution of 128x64)
;;
; This driver allows to drive up to 8 of them, every display is connected
; to a dedicated chip select line at port B. They can be addressed with
; following (graphical) cursor positions:
;
; I have swapped these round to make it easier for people with PIC18f4685
; so they are limited to 4x displays. Therefore the first display is on PortB.7
;
; CS at PortB.7 CS at PortB.6
; +--------------+ +--------------+
; | | | |
; | X = 0..127 | | X = 128..255 |
; | Y = 0.. 7 | | Y = 0.. 7 |
; | | | |
; +--------------+ +--------------+
;
; CS at PortB.5 CS at PortB.4
; +--------------+ +--------------+
; | | | |
; | X = 0..127 | | X = 128..255 |
; | Y = 8.. 15 | | Y = 8.. 15 |
; | | | |
; +--------------+ +--------------+
;
; CS at PortB.3 CS at PortB.2
; +--------------+ +--------------+
; | | | |
; | X = 0..127 | | X = 128..255 |
; | Y = 16.. 23 | | Y = 16.. 23 |
; | | | |
; +--------------+ +--------------+
;
; CS at PortB.1 CS at PortB.0
; +--------------+ +--------------+
; | | | |
; | X = 0..127 | | X = 128..255 |
; | Y = 24.. 31 | | Y = 24.. 31 |
; | | | |
; +--------------+ +--------------+
;
; The arrangement can be modified below the USER_LCD_Data_CS and USER_LCD_GCursorSet label
;
; ==========================================================================
;
; Copyright (C) 2009 Phil Taylor ([email protected])
; Copyright (C) 2003 Thorsten Klose ([email protected])
; Licensed for personal non-commercial use only.
; All other rights reserved.

You don't just write codes for a "big" LCD. You write it for the specific type of display you are using.

So it works with 128x64... the display itselfs appears as a 256x256 display in MIOS.

Getting this working with a character display... I don't know how to do this... thats why iam looking for a small grafic lcd with LED background or so.
I don't know if VFD will work like this... or are available as grafic VFDs. I will probably need a dcdc converter for higher voltage for the VFD?


Gives us more info.

Iam restoring an old harrison 40 channel desk... the automation... ooold... no flying faders.. no daw control... no tracknames from the DAW.
Iam just working on a circuit that uses the dc control voltage coming from the linear taper of a cheap behringer BCF2000 motorfader box. My desk has VCAs... so I had to make a circuit to change the linear voltage (from the fader) to a VCA compatible voltage. With adjustments for 0db... the adjustment where the db scale changes from 10db steps to 20db steps and the mute point (fader fully down).
Circuit works so far... but I have to figure out how I can combine this with the old internal VCA bus technology from 1978 (which is a nice!). So I can still make VCA groups and control an inline channel of the console with another channel which can be switches as VCA group master. 9 VCA groups are possible... and there is a master group fader.
However... I can make 24 midi tracks in the DAW and I have a cheapo VCA flying fader automation. (I could even change the fader to faders with linear AND log tapers... so I would not need the VCAs... but I like the VCAs... much more possibilities). Much better than saving automation to an old computer! I gave my Optifile VCA automation to a friend for free.
The "new idea" is to put 24 LCDs into the console to show the tracknames... or at least... make a LCD-bar which can just law down at the position where the existing scribble strip is. (the non destructive solution)  ;) Using USB to parallel port converters and writing a software is one idea.... but getting the tracknamens right out of the DAW is better! The ucapps stuff already exists so I thought its an easy ways to midify this. I can use grafical LCDs directly and it will work (or we get this to work). But I can't find small grafical LCDs to put them into the console. Thats just the problem.
The other idea is to make a new armrest... bigger one... I could put bigger LCDs into the armrest. (within a small module rack bar... like the Neve consoles. And I could even build a computer keyboard and mousepad into the armrest - which is missing in the consoles from the 70's. A blurry video from the motorfader controlling the vca for poormans fader automation.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZocGGHeJ8s

Thanks,
Frank.
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°

helterbelter

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 04:15:57 PM »
Hi Frank...

I wished I could help you with the LCD's, but I can't. But it's cool to see how your harrison VCA project is going ! I'm curious about the way you've solved possible issues (e.g. regarding volts/dBs), but that would be off topic. But one day....

Good luck with finding the appropiate lcds.


Igor

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 05:07:17 PM »
I'd say ones shown at picture are 5x7 LED alphanumeric displays, not VFD's...anyway,
I don't know what types are exactly used ere.
There's a mastering transfer chain I did for Bob Katz.
A bit different version of his mastering transfer chain will use these displays:

I used HDSP2003's, which I bought at surplus store, they look very close.
Frank, I think you can use HDSP2003/etc. for your purpose.
They aren't exactly graphic displays, and interface is not very convinient...anyway.
There are 8-digit versions as well and cascading in chains (serial inerface) relatively simple.
If you like to use them, pm me, I'll ask programmer who working in our team,
he will spot some light on howto's.


BTW. Why not use scribble strip as is? :)

BTW. I am curious about v/db converter as well. My stupid head tells me use one of
Linear appnotes with matched transistors, or ca3146 pops up as well, or simply put here
THAT2252 for less headache :) Hm....Curious!!!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 05:18:41 PM by Igor »
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

SIXTYNINER

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 06:12:58 PM »
bump
>>" 1 Picture say what billions words cannot "<< - >>"SMD Kill the DIY STAR"<<
Why in the  forum  if no share

sahib

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2010, 07:46:14 PM »
That is  a vacuum fluorescant type not  LCD.
If you are looking to replace an existing/broken one you must get the identical type. You can not just get any graphical LCD and drop it in as a replacement.

Oh - what a pity. I don't want to replace it... i don't own the SSL. Is an SSL a good console?  ???  :P


I don't know. I heard they are a bit more expensive than a Bearringer. May be you should get one and use the faders. And tell me where you dumpt the rest. ;D

RS has ones with 41.7mm width buy they are over 50mm in height.  Just checked Displaytech web site and the third from top is 41.3mm x 19.7mm module which might be what you are looking for. However, you'll need to order it from them.
http://www.displaytech.com.hk/product.php?id=12


Dot Matrix types that Igor used are also cool looking stuff. Few months ago I parted out a Lexicon Opus digital console from which I had quite a lot of them. I am writing from home just now but I'll check the specs tomorrow and if you think you prefer them then I am sure we can reach an agreement.

These are all Alphanumeric 8 x 1 made by Avago. However, you will obviously need additional drivers for these and you made it clear you do not want them but I included in case you change your mind.


Green.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=171-3498&x=29&y=16

HE Red.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=171-3505

Red
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=194-341&x=27&y=16

Green
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=194-925&x=12&y=16

Yellow
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=171-1391&x=25&y=18





« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:25:34 AM by sahib »

solderspongebob

Re: 6 or 8 character LCDs like SSL - where to buy?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 08:17:38 AM »
Interesting project! I had a quick look on Farnell and they have a small (1" across) 8-char x 2-line LCD display for only £5.82 (price drops with larger QTY):

http://uk.farnell.com/everbouquet/mc0802a-sgr/lcd-module-alphanumeric-8x2/dp/1137380

(Ignore the stock photo as it's not representative of the actual LCD - check the datasheet for a diagram).

It's not backlit, but with that small a display you could easily put a bright LED at each side of the glass to illuminate it.

If I had to tackle this project, then rather than try and drive all of the displays from the MIOS/PIC board, you might want to consider having a mITX (mini-ITX) PC controlling your console, using the parallel port and a simple address-line decoder board to address all those LCDs. You could run Linux on it and write a relatively simple program to control them all - could even add a MIDI interface and bring MMC control into the console. And then there's the automation... ;)

(I'm a MS .NET programmer myself, so the only option for me and Linux is to use MONO, which allows the .NET framework to run on Linux, but I'm sure there are people here who can help with C++ and Linux. Alternatively, you could use Windows but would have to strip it back to get it to run rock-solid and reliably).

Love to see some pics of how your Harrison console is coming on. I myself want to get a large format console in the next few years, and have my eye on an Otari Status 48 (poor man's SSL???). Ah, dream on...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 08:33:06 AM by solderspongebob »
Current ratio of finger burns to solder joints: 1:10

nrgrecording

adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 07:12:42 AM »
Thanks for all infos!

Igors Displays are looking very, very nice to me. And using a mini ITX PC sounds good, too.
But everything ended here so far - because I can't code anything! (last assembler programming was 10 years ago, and it was not my world)  :-\
I don't think there is that much interest in adding LCDs to old consoles. (although I know a few guys who would do it if they know how to do it)

The midibox solution seems to be easy... and this lcds will work with the existing drivers (or just need small corrections)
http://www.lcd-module.de/pdf/doma/dips082.pdf
These LCDs have yellow/green backlight... not too sexy. So i don't know if I will generally do it or not. It will probably ruin the look of the console.  ;)

@solderspongebob: Your lcds are looking much better then the EA DOG lcds! But the MIOS needs grafical LCDs - not alphanumerical/character type ones.
A "black box" with Midi In and 24x LCD out would be nice. So it could grab the tracknames out of the mackie control protocol and it does not need a seperate computer or OS. Maybe there is something which can grab the midi data (by software) and send it over USB to a converter which controls the lcds? I have to change the next 1000s capacitors of the harrison... maybe I got an idea after all that solder fume.  ;)

Frank.
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°

solderspongebob

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 10:42:58 AM »
You know, I've been thinking about this over the last few days! Pity I don't have a large format console to do this to otherwise I'd be in with both feet!

First thing I was thinking of was the addressing of each display and the resultant cabling beetween them all - ideally there would be a single ribbon cable "bus" connecting them all to an interface board. Problem is, using a parallel bus means you would need address lines and data lines, which could mean a big fat ribbon cable.

So I got thinking - what about controlling them serially? Maybe I2C bus? So each LCD would have a daughterboard with maybe a PIC controller, that listens to the I2C bus and extracts the data for the display. Each display would need to be individually addressable, so possibly burn an ID into the code for each PIC on the daughterboards. Only a few wires needed for the bus!

Then, there would have to be a controller board that can listen on a MIDI port for the incoming data and translate this to the I2C bus driving the LCD controllers. Maybe the MIOS board could do this (the newer MIOS board, based on the STM32, includes an I2C bus). In fact, having the MIOS board at least means that you could later add MMC control switches to the console (or any other MIDI control you desire).

Exciting stuff!  :P
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 10:46:08 AM by solderspongebob »
Current ratio of finger burns to solder joints: 1:10


sahib

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 11:23:29 AM »

Forget parallel, serial is the way to go.

Before I parted out the Lexicon I was thinking the same. Should I try to revive or not? But had to put it under the knife as I knew it would be a never ending battle..

nrgrecording

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 11:55:45 AM »
Pity I don't have a large format console to do this to otherwise I'd be in with both feet!

I have one soundcraft 2400 in the studio... if you want to pick it up...  ;) I really like the sound. But the console needs some work. Somone has stolen the power supply because he thought it is a cool amplifier. And another one removed 4 input channels and the master because he wanted to make a 4channel console with the parts! In the meantime I bought a power supply, 4 input channels and a master channel... even a new TT Phone patchbay... its easy to fix.
You could make an inline console out of this split console... after that you'll have enough space for TFTs, keyboard and mouse. You could use 19" bars to add mechanical parts. the console is as big as the harrison 40 channel console. (28 input, 24 track channels) exactly this one: http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/desk2.jpg

The vca-flying fader mod iam using in the harrison costs 25€/channel and works with the soundcraft, too.
If you use a 3 pole relais, controlled by a switch, it may be possible to switch the presets of the BCF2000... so you can assign the motorfaders to channel volume... the next preset: aux 1 (which is the headphone mix maybe) So you press one button and all channel faders now control the headphone mix of the drummer... if you have LCDs with the tracknames... this could be nice. Same way how a yamaha Promix 01 works.

Regarding one PIC for every display... sounds kind of overrated to me? Doesn't the pic cost more than the LCDs? The good thing about the 2x8 EA DOG lcds is... they're very flat and you can plug them right into sockets... no soldering. So instead of drilling and cutting each channel to put the lcd display into the channel we could make an LCD-bar out of aluminum which lays on top of the console (over the faders). If you don't like it... you need 3 seconds to remove it.  ;)
If you want to put lcds into the channels... most old desks have penny&giles style faders... the motorfaders are smaller... which will give some space for lcds. I could make 1mm aluminum cover parts which could be placed on top of each channel... just an idea.

Frank.
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°

solderspongebob

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 12:29:35 PM »
Are these the displays you're referring to:

http://www.lcd-module.com/products/dog.html
http://www.lcd-module.com/eng/pdf/grafik/dogs102-6e.pdf

(the 102x64 graphical looks a good size for this)

They look superb, AND, they've got serial I/F built in. Only question is how to make each display individually addressible on a single bus. I'm thinking some kind of separate Chip-Select/Enable line is going to be required for each display, but that's only 5 wires per display (0v, +5v, SDA, SDC, CS). Then a board to demultiplex the address to the Chip-Select lines.

Hmmm, with a graphical display you could pretty much anything you want on it - icons, text, mini bargrpahs - hell, you could even scroll messages across the entire scribble strip!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 12:35:42 PM by solderspongebob »
Current ratio of finger burns to solder joints: 1:10

nrgrecording

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 12:52:57 PM »

http://www.lcd-module.com/products/dog.html
http://www.lcd-module.com/eng/pdf/grafik/dogs102-6e.pdf

These are nice... only 39 width... but 41,8mm height... they will not fit into my console.


These ones will fit...   :
http://www.lcd-module.com/eng/pdf/doma/dips082e.pdf

its a plug-in module
There is no bezel available for this size... but I can make perspex and alu parts so that it will fit and look nicely
They're HD44780 compatible and will probably work directly with ucapps, because: Ucapps supports two LCD displays. "Phil" wrote a driver which seperates the display. This makes it possible to divide the text which is normally shown on two lcds... to 8 lcds.

I've got one option which seems to be easy for installing displays... even the bigger ones... The armrest is made out of wood. I could easily replace it with parts from a module rack (like Neve did it with their eq,preamp,aux... modules). To fix the lcd assemblies only one screw at each side of the lcd should work... I could make a small aluminum part which holds both lcds (the right part of the left lcd and the left part of the right lcd)

I don't know if iam right but I think everything could be wired parallel, only the select pin needs a seperate connection/each lcd to the core module.
Like this:
Thats exactly the width of 4 harrison channelstrips... another 4 LCD pcb could be wired at the right side of this pcb. So one should only need two small pcbs with the same layout for 8 LCDs. (easy and cheap)
http://www.nrgrecording.de/temporary/LCDs.pdf

Frank.
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°

Tubemooley

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 01:09:36 PM »
The dips082e model is 4-bit or 8-bit parallel interface. Not serial interface. DW.

solderspongebob

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 04:37:33 AM »
LCDs & PCB looks good. So for every 8 channels/LCDs, you would need another MIOS board - AFAIK each MIOS board can be interlinked without the need for extra MIDI I/O - only the MIOS board at the start of the chain needs the MIDI I/O functionality.

I haven't looked at MIOS for a while (I have a small MIOS test rig with LCD and pots) - would you be using it in Mackie HUI mode in order to get the tracknames sent through from your DAW?
Current ratio of finger burns to solder joints: 1:10

nrgrecording

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2010, 05:19:19 AM »
would you be using it in Mackie HUI mode in order to get the tracknames sent through from your DAW?

Yes. I have to add a "mackie control" as remote control device. I haven't tested it because I don't have a  mackie control device or a upapps core modul. Ok...  I have a core module somewhere... or at least two of these. One self-etched (where I had to burn the pic myselfs) and a newer one. But I think I will order new pcbs at "smashtv" because I need 3 cores anyway. (if you want to have the other core moduls... let me know. I think I have the MF modul and the expensive chips also)
In the meantime I got 3x behringer BCF2000. I tested the mackie control mode with one BCF2000 and it works good with the BCF.

Frank.
Frank Röllen. www.energyrecording.de [FORUM · DIY WEBSITE · STUDIO]°°°° www.frontpanels.de [Engraved Frontpanels]°°°°

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2021, 06:24:06 PM »
Hi, did anyone ever end up creating any sort of midi track/channel lcd name device/solution for their console? I had the same idea and just found this thread. I can literally get 64 lcds from Aliexpress for very little, and I really like the idea of having the track names under my channels for my hybrid/analog workflow...

I would love to see some pictures!!!


Cheers.


- BL

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2021, 04:47:32 PM »
For anyone who is still interested, this project by a guy called Henk is great. It's exactly what everyone in this thread wants.https://github.com/tttapa/Control-Surface/issues/164

TwentyTrees

Re: adding LCDs with Tracknames to old analog consoles...
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2021, 05:33:43 PM »
Wow! I don't have the software chops to understand a tenth of what's happening there... But I definitely want one. ;D

For anyone who is still interested, this project by a guy called Henk is great. It's exactly what everyone in this thread wants.https://github.com/tttapa/Control-Surface/issues/164


 

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