Corrugating ribbons. Show us your rigs and secrets

I did buy and try something like that, although a different maker. It didn't work very well for me.

I found the moulded plastic cogs were pretty crude and I couldn't get a consistent corrugation out of it.

YMMV, and so on, so don't let me put anyone off experimenting.

That tube wringer gadget was actually the first thing pointed out to me in a hobby store when I explained what I needed to do.

I thought it was too clumsy for the job. The gear "teeth" were too wide.

Then again, I don't know much about how the corrugation zigzag length affects sound. Maybe it's not awfully important. It's just there for a spring-like tension, right? I have seen pictures of extremely wide corrugations in some commercial ribbons mics. Like 10mm vs. 3mm...

Here's a little vid I put together about re-ribonning a reslo mic. You can see my corrugation gadget in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStSCPG81n8

Good video.
I notice you didn't show you fiddling to get the thing into the mic.  ;D
That's the hardest part and unless your hands are very steady, it's easy to become frustrated with the entire project.
Nice corrugating device though and the end result sounds pretty good.
Congratulations!

Mike Cleaver said:

Good video.
I notice you didn't show you fiddling to get the thing into the mic.  ;D

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Thanks!
Yes, it's true...I was concentrating on the ribbon install and the last thing I wanted to do was split my focus and worry about the camera too. 

Great video.

I'm now wondering about the ribbon material I have. It's the "fake silver leaf" stuff available from hobby stores, apparently about 2 microns.

Freddy G, where did you get your thinner 1 micron stuff? Would be fun to experiment with different thicknesses as well.

Kingston said:

I'm now wondering about the ribbon material I have. It's the "fake silver leaf" stuff available from hobby stores, apparently about 2 microns.

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That's more like ~1u or 0.6u. Suitable for some mics, especially the Reslos in my experience (although you could argue the stock transformers possibly don't have enough primary L for this...).

Thanks for the video ;D

rodabod said:

That's more like ~1u or 0.6u.

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Kingston,
That was my understanding as well...the hobby store silver leaf is usually 0.6 microns.

Has anyone seen articles or documentation on the net on the effects of different ribbon foil thicknesses?

I did a test run on my found-items ribbon corrugation rig. It was extremely difficult and took many tries but I was able to make a decent replacement ribbon for a T Bone RB500/Alctron HRM-1/APEX 210 type. I used whatever this silver leaf stuff is.

I have two of these mics to compare. One has the original ribbon, the other has my own replacement. My replacement is a bit noisy, not optimal at all, but seems to have slightly more extended high frequency response.

Does a too thin ribbon become a source of white noise like hiss? too much resistance or something?

Thickness is important as is what you use for the ribbon material.
This was all so long ago for me that' I'm forgetting what we used but there were a number of options.
We tried chewing gum wrapper, the foil that was bonded to paper to wrap the individual sticks of gum.
Soak off the paper and use the foil.
I remember it worked but not how well.
There were other foil options back then as well, some as thin and filmy as silver leaf.
Aluminum or what RCA called Duraluminum worked the best.
Some of the ribbon repair guys such as Clarence Kane still have the original stuff and the original machines to make the RCA ribbons.
It takes a deft and steady hand to make a ribbon and lots of practice.
Once you work off your frustrations and discover the little tricks, it becomes easier but it's never something to attempt if your hands shake at all.

Mine have shaken since childhood, this should be interesting, LOL

Kingston said:

white noise like hiss? too much resistance or something?

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Hi Kingston,

Do make sure your contacts / ribbon anchors are really clean, flat, and free of the old ribbon. Sometimes the contacts are silver or plated and will need cleaning  up.

I buy my ribbon foil from Advent Research Materials. Not cheap, but available in different thicknesses and tempers. And a little goes a long way.

... slightly more extended high frequency response.

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Your Freq. response may be skewed by the ribbon tension, of course. When I started out, I tended to pulled them too tight, or leave them hanging too loose. Just takes a little practice.

At some forums we'd be shot for even discussing this...

zebra50 said:

At some forums we'd be shot for even discussing this...

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Now there's the attitude I don't understand??!!!
Why keep things so "trade secret" or "guild"  ???

Kingston said:

I have two of these mics to compare. One has the original ribbon, the other has my own replacement. My replacement is a bit noisy, not optimal at all, but seems to have slightly more extended high frequency response.

Does a too thin ribbon become a source of white noise like hiss? too much resistance or something?

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Yes, the resistance of the ribbon (and Pri) gets squared by the ratio of the transformer and all the DCRs translate into the noise. With that leaf material it is quite tricky to get low noise while maintaining good sensitivity. If you are using stock Chinese transformers it is even worse because of their high ratio and unreasonably high DCR.

Mike Cleaver said:

Aluminum or what RCA called Duraluminum worked the best.

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Duraluminum is a special Al Alloy. While more durable than Al it prone to oxidation and with time it becomes brittle and loses its compliance.

Freddy G said:

zebra50 said:

At some forums we'd be shot for even discussing this...

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Now there's the attitude I don't understand??!!!
Why keep things so "trade secret" or "guild"   ???

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I actually don't see any attitude here. Frankly, if one spends hundreds of hours and thousands dollars of research do you really expect those to spill all the secrets on a public forum? In fact, I believe Zebra was nice and generous enough and throughout the years posted quite a bit about ribbons, so I am really lost as for what do you mean here.

Best, M

zebra50 said:

At some forums we'd be shot for even discussing this...

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Hey guys, I posted that line after right after being a bit frustrated with some attitude at a different microphone so-called 'lab'.

What I should have said was something like 'I like the way this forum encourages sharing knowledge and experimentation'. We all know this is a great place.

Mark, thank you for the support. I don't think Freddy's comment was aimed at me in particular, and I certainly took no offence from it. Most members share what they can, although sometimes there are good reasons to hold back too, and nobody here owes anyone anything.

I have the highest regard for this place and its members, and have learned so much from everyone's generous help. Thank you all!



[/offtopic]

Hey Zebra50,
I spoke hastily, I apologize.

'I like the way this forum encourages sharing knowledge and experimentation'

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I agree with this too, I posted that comment because I was recently "snubbed" on another forum full of elitists where all the interesting discussions are private. I don't work that way....I'm considered an expert in my field and I'll talk to anyone  in depth about anything they want to know.

Freddy G said:

I spoke hastily, I apologize.

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Not at all, and not needed, but appreciated nonetheless.