Audience mics...

Discuss...

If they are not working you have to overdub the audience later on or worse use a sound FX library. One of the 2 was used on kiss alive

I think you need a lot of them to pick up the roar of the crowd, if not it sounds like there are 3-4 people clapping / Shouting...

I have never managed to record the audience convincingly. Always sounds thin and like there are not  a lot of people when using stereo mic techniques, also there is the problem of sound from the PA.

I think puncho is right, samples is the way to go, at least to beef up the sound.

BTW, what is the best way to record the audience? I'm thinking loads of mics...

J

Vertical height baby, as high as possible...

use to work for a mobile recording truck, our typical setup was this:

6-10 mics.

two sm57's on stage with short stands (getting as close to head height as possible to pick up the crazies in the front row of the show)

on the sides of the stage we would put a pair of mics per side. one shotgun and one small diaphragm condenser. the condensers pointed at foh and the shotguns were pointed in different places depending on the venue.

sometimes we would put 414's at foh facing the stage, sometimes not. depended on the venue. and in large venues or arenas we would put another pair of shotguns pointing away from the stage at the foh booth.

on a minimalist setup I would say the pair of 57's on stage and the small diaphragm condensers on side stage can get you a good crowd sound.

but all of this depends on the crowd, if they are not lively, then the type of mics you use and where you put them wont matter. as for samples, not a fan. never captures the feel of a crowd that is pumped and into a show. but if you must you must.


(just another note) when mixing live performances, don't ever mute your crowds. keep them in your mix wide open and eq as necessary to make them sit well. it helps keep the "live" feel going in the mix. and when you need to push crowd, push it,  but don't unmute and mute and unmute and mute. trying to get a live performance to sound like a "record" is pointless in my opinion.

Awesome. Thanks guys. I have a fairly high profile gig to record this week. They want it to sound really live so thanks for the advice.

1 Pair 816s (long shotguns) on the front lighting truss, 3 pair on stands (416s (medium shotguns), hypercardioids, and cardioids) to the side of, and as far from the PA stacks as possible, one pair at the front center of the stage 12'-20' apart, 1 pair XY at the mix position.  Be sure to measure the distance from the front of the stage to the mix position mics, and include it in your notes so that the mix engineer can calculate the delay compensation.
My $0.02.
Bruno2000

Are you planning to capture the ambiance of the room or just cheering/clapping etc?

I would suggest getting some good quick transient makers too (like a snare) in case you need to align something for phase funkiness.

CC

I'm going for some ambience. What I've got are two shotguns in the grid next to the arrays, a Røde NT-4 at FOH and a pair of SM-81s on the stage facing out. This is a new work situation for me so I'm not looking to rock the boat too much with making demands but my instincts tell me to drop a pair of condensers over the densest part of the crowd.

Thanks guys. I'll post a link to my results later in the week.

mushy said:

I'm going for some ambience. What I've got are two shotguns in the grid next to the arrays, a Røde NT-4 at FOH and a pair of SM-81s on the stage facing out. This is a new work situation for me so I'm not looking to rock the boat too much with making demands but my instincts tell me to drop a pair of condensers over the densest part of the crowd.

Thanks guys. I'll post a link to my results later in the week.

Click to expand...

I know it might seem a little strange but a ton of church/worship recordings are done live.  Literally hundreds.  I'm not sure what other culture of music is quite like that.  My observation is typically M/S micing from the stage with two shot guns.  Maybe catch a rider from Hillsong or Delirious?

In my experience with this stuff it is important to have some test tones with quick transients in case you have to time align.  I think you will find as mentioned that you never want to go to 0 with the live mics in the mixing but you don't necessarily have stuff super loud in the mix outside of capturing some cheering.

CC

The results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YipT6GLEDSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpZlErkLoo

Make sure you hit it in HD.

job well done

what wireless mic were you using during the onerepublic recording?  sounded really good, quite faithful to the vocal performance considering the live aspect.  the crowd mix is very tasteful, did you end up hanging more condensers or just stick with the initial setup?

Thanks guys.  These mixes got me a permanent position recording and mixing these shows.  With that in mind, if any of you find yourselves in NYC, the beers are on me. Seriously, don't be shy. Reach out. 

The vocal mic was a Shure KSM9.  My audience mics were exactly what I mentioned earlier with careful filtering and compression.

Here's the one from last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGuBeHy-4c

Thanks again, guys... You rock...

Congrats!!!  Well done!!!
Best,
Bruno2000

Wow.... well done... really cool...

There's a nice vibe at those gigs...

So you are also tracking everything?
What setup are you using?
Passive split? pre-amps? pro-tools? any DIY gear? any processing? any editing?

How long does it take you to turn one of these mixes around?

I'm happy that you got a permanent gig... good for you... keep them videos coming...

J

Thanks.  This is my first real exposure to the REAL corporate environment, it is still a great gig. I'm very blessed especially in this financial climate.

So,  yes.  I'm tracking everything from the interviews to the performances to the off the cuff stuff that's shot in the hallways and dressing rooms. We mix one song right after the show ends while the editor is cutting picture upstairs. That one song goes live on the site at 6 am the following morning. The rest get mixed over the course of the next few days and go into the MASSIVE ClearChannel database to be played one any of their 750 stations nationwide. 

The setup is pretty ridiculous.

• 32 Fader Icon D-Control
• HD5
• 8 x Digidesign Pre
• Manley VoxBox
• UA LA2a
• UA LA3a
• Big Ben
• 5 x Genelec 8050A + Sub setup for 5.1
• Some kind of Jensen based 3 way splitter that sends each mic to FOH, MON and my rig (more info to come)
• 8-core Mac
• Bit of a skimpy plug in selection but working on that.
• FOH and MON are both fully blown out Venue systems

The pre's aren't fancy but they sound good and are completely recallable with the system.  At some point I'll integrate more of my DIY into the fold, but I'm still holding back.  I just started here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGuBeHy-4c

Thanks again, guys!

i would imagine the splitters are based on the JT-MB-D, possibly utilizing the circuit lifted straight from the data sheet below.  i've played around with some myself and was plenty happy with them.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/datashts/mbd.pdf

gotta say again that your success with this quite inspiring for me, i've been working on assembling a live/mobile rig since before i stumbled in here.  to pull off live recording well is a whole 'nother monster!

The splitters are these:  http://www.jensen-transformers.com/datashts/dinms4p.pdf

riggler said:

Vertical height baby, as high as possible...

Click to expand...

I just went and hungout backstage at Tanglewood, down the road from me here in western MA.
They had fun showing me the overhead arrangements in Ozawa Hall.
There were all these great condenser pairs on movable lines hanging...
then waaaaaaay up in the ceiling about 50ft or so, back over the audience, they had an old Shure 545.
I called it and Douglas (the tech showing me around) laughed.
Lil hold over from the old hall as an audience mic, he said...