Unbalanced sounds better...?

I really though this was BS, but my Great River MP2 going into a 192I/O sounds so darn immediate and present. I then noticed that a cheapo Casio keyboard plugged in unbalanced also had that same "sound" to it. I really really really would like to try an unbalanced out on my G9 and see if it's really being unbalanced that I am hearing. Maybe it's just how awesome the GR is, and the fact that the Casio is a synth.

I dunno, opinions?

I dunno either, are you comparing a mic pre with a synth?
???
Now if you have a G9, just compare balanced and unbalanced outputs, balanced is running through transformer, unbalanced you can get straight from the output cap, soundcard input should have sufficiently high input impedance. There should be a difference in the sound, with or without transformer.
I have my G9 wired that way anyway.

BS

You hear it here first, folks, why pay for an MP2 when you can get "that sound" from a cheapo Casio keyboard? 

You don't get what I'm trying to say. The immediacy of the sound was very similar. I know this is apples and oranges as far as the source content, but it's this specific sound quality that I'm trying to identify that both sources share.

A coincidence.

Don't make hasty conclusions based on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_and_dependence#Correlation_and_causality

on the same token - I'm sure  it depends too on how a certain piece of equipment balances/de-balances. they are not created equal. But it is unlikely that any well designed piece of equipment is going to have any very noticeable difference from being balanced/not balanced.

for some circuits though, bypassing the output balancing circuit should give it more "fidelity" cause your bypassing more op amps and capacitors, but for what trade off? and how much?

BTW is your great river transformer balanced?
AC

My great river right now is ONLY unbalanced out. I will be putting output transformers in there to have an additional balanced output. Isn't it possible that even good balanced applications could show some degree of frequency response issues? I've read of a "tilt" effect of balance circuits years ago on a hi-fi site, but that could have been snake oil. But you know, most of these high qualtiy audio transformers are pretty clean through the audio band, so I may want to hold any conclusions until I balance the great river and can do an A/B for real...

so wait,

you are A/B testing a cheap Casio keyboard against some preamp? 

have fun is all I can say.

are you plugged into the unbalanced in's of the 192? 

pucho812 said:

are you plugged into the unbalanced in's of the 192? 

Click to expand...

$1000 in cash if you can show me an unbalanced analog input on the back of a 192.

-I'm serious.

Quick! Mod the circuits! Snag that 1000$  ;D ;D ;D

i have never seen so many people looking at the back
of their 192 s for the first time since they put  'em in.

and the first guy that says " yeah... those rca connectors...that's them!"
is gonna get pooped on

QUEEF BAG said:

and the first guy that says " yeah... those rca connectors...that's them!"
is gonna get pooped on

Click to expand...

Kieth did say "unbalanced ANALOG" connector or I would have been all over it.

Mark

OK... I am not comparing a casio keyboard to a preamp in terms of function or component quality! I'm just saying that they *share* in this case a certain sound quality of immediacy. I came unbalanced out of the GR into the normal 192 Balanced input like this:

Tip - Pin 2
Sleeve - Pin 3
NC - Shield - Pin 1

SSLtech said:

pucho812 said:

are you plugged into the unbalanced in's of the 192? 

Click to expand...

$1000 in cash if you can show me an unbalanced analog input on the back of a 192.

-I'm serious.

Click to expand...

I ment the -10 input not really  thinking at that moment... I was stuck in the work elevator this morning due to the elevator motor  deciding to die the moment I came up from the parking lot... fun times.

For a minute I thought "maybe the 192 has in-built level compensation when an unbalanced connector is inserted, making it 6dB louder and thus the perceptual change."

I've made that error before, thinking "this sounds better"...... "oh wait, it's just louder"

Then I check the digi docs and that's a No.

I will say that with transformer balanced outputs on preamps I always like having a switching jack installed to bypass the xfrmr for unbalanced output. Allows you to use the distortion artifacts introduced by the xfrmr as an effect to make the particular track sit as desired in the mix. I perceive it as resulting in two different positions or locations within the vertical height of the mix (to use the parlance of our times  ).

192 no likey unbalanced.

riggler said:

I really though this was BS, but my Great River MP2 going into a 192I/O sounds so darn immediate and present. I then noticed that a cheapo Casio keyboard plugged in unbalanced also had that same "sound" to it. I really really really would like to try an unbalanced out on my G9 and see if it's really being unbalanced that I am hearing. Maybe it's just how awesome the GR is, and the fact that the Casio is a synth.

I dunno, opinions?

Click to expand...

I'm with several others here who still wish to know exactly what you are comparing - Casio > MP2 > 192  vs Casio > 192?  It wasn't clear what the source was when the MP2 was being used.

My feeling is that the immediacy you describe in the case of the MP2 is simply the sound of that amp - they tend to 'cook the mids' - very forward sounding like Neves - as if a large stretch of the midband has been boosted by 2 or 3 dbs.

As for the Casio - it's a digital keyboard - aren't they all kind of too forward sounding to begin with?  You may have been getting level mismatches and the usual distortion that follows which would heighten the effect.

I don't think being unbalanced in any of those interface situations was a major contributor to the sound you heard.

Is it not possible to build a little box to text this, using a couple of XLR (or TRS) connectors, and a switch to connect pin 3 to ground?

Then you can listen, switch, listen, switch.... (You may need to correct for a drop in level.)

Or am I missing something?