abechap024

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 08:51:14 PM »
Yea, one thing I notice is that when musicians hear their sounds compressed they get excited and that seems to show it in their performance.
One word.

Commit.

I like to get my project sounding as close to the final going into the box. It helps make the mix easier and helps the musicians to play against something that sounds like a record. I like to get my tracks pumping and exciting.

That mean's generous amounts of compression and EQ.

Compression in the box is flat and listless compared to the real deal.

It get's easier to see into the future when you've done it a few times.

Yes, it's old school.

:)

Mark

+1!

But on the same note, I was listening to some acoustic guitar I recorded a while back, and was amazed by the clarity and punch, and excited to look over my notes of the session, to look at the settings/which compressor I used for that killer sound! Turns out it was with out compression! haha

I guess I'm just scared of getting into a rut! Ok great comments btw. carry on:-)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 10:12:30 PM by abechap024 »
AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards


zayance

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2010, 03:55:13 AM »
Quote
Yea, one thing I notice is that when musicians hear their sounds compressed they get excited and that seems to show it in their performance.

Depends wich musician and style, most of the guys i know don't like Compression that much, actually, they are doing all the nice job for me, well not always  :)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 04:00:18 AM by zayance »

Stagefright13

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2010, 04:10:57 PM »
I always compress on the way in. I rather have it sound correctly from the get go. You can always add more later so don't go crazy. It also helps that I have a compressor strapped to the 2 buss the entire time. It keeps you from overcompressing during tracking. And gives it a more "final" sound during tracking and mixing. Cause we all know the 2 buss WILL eventually be compressed... Of course that compression isn't printed.

But having it there makes it easy to see what is what. If that makes any sense?

Happy squishing!
John
Amateur experimenter

dandeurloo

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2010, 07:37:57 PM »
I do the 2 buss comp as well.  I think it really helps put things in focus right away.  But I still compress everything.  i'd rather use my real gear over a plugin any day.  Plus my Drip LA 2A sounds so good it should get used on everything!
PROFESSIONAL CHASSIS AND FRONT PANELS FOR DIY PROJECTS: WWW.COLLECTIVECASES.COM

Dan Deurloo
www.collectivecases.com
www.risendrums.com

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2010, 02:28:20 PM »
you need to  be REALLY careful when using 2 buss compression. When you use it while tracking or mixing it will naturally undo your fader movements to some degree, and it is easy to push it into over compression without realizing it. The point of the mix is not to have it sound mastered, the point is to make a well balanced representation of the song that can be mastered to play in many different environments. The point of mastering for that matter is not to add audible compression. The point of mastering is to make the mix translate to most playing environments and to prepare it for distribution. With a 2 buss compressor on your mix, or god forbid while tracking, you are going to be listening to something that is not a true representation of what you are doing. I don't mean to get all high and mighty on the subject but i have seen many a mix ruined by 2 buss compression whether it was printed or not. I am however a proponent of using all types of dynamics and eq processing to tape. There is nothing wrong with shaping your sound to the multitrack, but it is important that you are listening to the tone you have and making decisions based on need, and not desire to see lights move. Tracking compression can be especially useful when using tape as it can manage the crest factor pre tape to give a more robust tape saturation. just some of my thoughts and rants. as always there is a lot of art in this, but that doesn't mean physics wont apply.

Stagefright13

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2010, 02:31:51 AM »
That's why compressors have bypass for sound check, mic position check, singer check, snare check, etc... etc...

John
Amateur experimenter

dandeurloo

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2010, 06:19:50 PM »
my 2 buss is pretty clean and light.  Roll super stereo with 2-3 db happening at the most.  Just a little glue.
PROFESSIONAL CHASSIS AND FRONT PANELS FOR DIY PROJECTS: WWW.COLLECTIVECASES.COM

Dan Deurloo
www.collectivecases.com
www.risendrums.com

abechap024

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2010, 06:43:52 PM »
yea, just barely seeing the meter move on my gssl for the 2buss for a metal band I've been mixing recently is magic.
AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards

detonator

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 07:49:05 PM »
My definition. EQ’ing can be done in the box, but depends on the quality of the source material. Do anything inside the box what you think is necessary. The last step like buss compression is done outside the box.

abechap024

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2010, 10:39:41 PM »
I like doing what I can outside of the box. But If the tracks have been recorded through good compressors on the way in, mixing in the box isn't as painfull. I still stem out as many tracks as possible when mixing, right now its not that many but If nothing else I like the work flow. Instead of having the session there with instant recall of everything, It forces me to actually MIX it alll and mix it till its finished. Otherwise I can easily spend way to much time second guessing/reopening/tweaking  (which isn't always a bad thing) but still, a huge time suck. One big plus of digital is its only sounding better and NO ADDED NOISE! I like a little of both when possible.

AC
AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards


detonator

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2010, 03:02:40 AM »
But If the tracks have been recorded through good compressors on the way in, mixing in the box isn't as painfull.
Compression is best done aftewords. This way you have the maximum control.

Instead of having the session there with instant recall of everything, It forces me to actually MIX it alll and mix it till its finished.
Listen to the tracks, lay down a mixing plan ON PAPER, keep control and stick to the program. My way is to monitor each individual element and judge it where it comes to EQ and compression. Turn the signal down and after judging all elements try to blend the elements, starting with the drums and bass. This makes it more easy to make the final adjustments afterwords. Try to group things and run it through the analogue section.

Otherwise I can easily spend way to much time second guessing/reopening/tweaking  (which isn't always a bad thing) but still, a huge time suck.
Welcome to the club, because that's what's mixing is all about and don't forget to listen to it in your car.

One big plus of digital is its only sounding better and NO ADDED NOISE! I like a little of both when possible.
It sure is. But digital on itself has a lack of warmth. That's why electronics come at the final stage.

BTW, ever thought about switching DAW application?

Matthew Jacobs

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2010, 05:54:06 AM »
I'm still in two minds about what's best... Compression while tracking or after... Although I am leaning towards compressing while tracking... For what I do at the moment , it works best...

I track mostly everything through good pre-amps and compressors and sometime EQ as well. Although I'm finding EQ the hardest to judge during tracking. I think hearing dynamics and applying compression whilst tracking is definitely easier for me than applying EQ whilst tracking.

For me, what I look for (while compressing and tracking) is a smoother and more even take. It really helps to have top range compressors available. If I didn't have my D-AOC, LA4A, GSSL and 175b I definitely wouldn't track with compression. The idea is to have multiple layers of compression during the whole production process. So I compress a little whilst recording, then a lot more during mixing + GSSL on the mixbuss and then there's the mastering, so I tend to be very light handed during recording.

My favorite compressor at the moment for recording is the D-AOC. Mine has Sowter transformers in it so it is very clear. I like it because it is transparent and is simple (no attack, release). This means that I can just set it and not worry to much about the settings and concentrate on recording. The LA4A is great as well, although it is more colored...

I find hardware compressors much better than plugins so I try and compress everything on the way in. I find plugin compressors sound much better on tracks that have been compressed while tracking.

Compression is best done aftewords. This way you have the maximum control.

I do not find it limiting at all. For example, when I record vocals I usually compress while tracking with my D-AOC. Sometimes I go to as much as 8-10 dB gain reduction. Later... when I mix, I usually use a LA2A plug-in and a 1176 plug-in. I find the plug-in compressors give me enough control to shape the dynamics of the sound even though it has been compressed while tracking.

I find compressing while tracking also helps the performer. And gives a almost finish sound as soon as you play the track. This helps the session flow smoother and helps build excitement, all which are good for the artistic content.

I guess the correct answer to this question is that it all depends on your setup and workflow. It also depends on your experience and confidence. (I've often been guilty of over compressing, or having the wrong settings while tracking...)

J

Autophase

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2010, 09:29:47 AM »
I dont record vocals in my music so not an expert on this.
It just struck a chord with me tht you guys might find interesting.
Waves have brought out a new vocal tracking plug in, im not sure if you seasoned pros will find it useful or offensive.
it looks comprehensive to me
http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=9945

abechap024

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2010, 07:58:46 PM »
yea, I've seen that "vocal rider" plugin before, though Ive never taken the time to test it out. I'm not sure why, I'm taking this time to write this post about it....I don't know I guess I like to have control with my automation and don't want to leave it up to a plug in....seems a little "gimicky" but I should tell my mind to stop judging! anyone use this plugin?
AC
AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards

thecheat

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2010, 03:30:58 AM »
Never used the vocal rider plugin, i installed automation on my console for a reason dammit!

I find myself routinely compressing certain instruments on the way in, but certainly not all. Specifically: Vocals, Acoustic Guitar, Bass, and anything i've never recorded before.

All for more or less the same reasons, to get a handle on the odd transient or unexpected jump in level. However, that being said, i also gravitate towards certain compressors for certain instruments depending on their tonal qualities and characteristics. For example, as much as i am in love with 1176s, i dont use them on vocals on the way in generally, but i will patch them into the desk so i can hear every word the singer sings and to get closer to the "mix" which i believe was alluded to earlier. This processing is post DAW though. Also, i find compressing on the way in on the instruments i mentioned helps the performer hear themselves more clearly. This tends to be a problem on Bass for example, when you've already recorded 12 tracks of guitars (!), and the bass player is just supposed to sit on the root notes for the most part.


That being said if anyone is giving away a Tube Tech CL-1B id be happy to record EVERYTHING through it just as a service to the board. :D

Chris

babyhead

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2010, 10:39:59 PM »
I don't like tracking with compression as a musician because I find that I end up playing harder. As an engineer, it makes my job easier.

'Compression is for bad bass players' - Mike Ellizondo (illest bass player: Dr. Dre, MM, $0.50)

I like attacks.

abechap024

Re: Tracking compression....
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2010, 03:40:47 AM »
I don't like tracking with compression as a musician because I find that I end up playing harder. As an engineer, it makes my job easier.

'Compression is for bad bass players' - Mike Ellizondo (illest bass player: Dr. Dre, MM, $0.50)

I like attacks.

Hello,
Compression could be bad for bass players....if they are good enough to be able to compensate for the deficiencies found in most all bass instruments and their "hot spots".
AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards


 

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