Rob Flinn

Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« on: December 31, 2010, 07:01:14 AM »
I have quite a big recap job coming up & was looking around at desoldering guns.  I'm fed up of using the hand pump, because of the damage the recoil can do to old circuit boards.

I know a lot of people use the Hakko, which is very similar to the De non, but I found this which is very much cheaper than both

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320625318351&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I know it's very obviously cheap Chinese, but has anyone actually used one ?

It's about 1/4 the price you can get a Hakko for in the UK.
regards Rob


Rob Flinn

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 07:24:50 AM »
or maybe this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DURATOOL-D00672-DESOLDERING-STATION-UK-EU-PLUG-/230374032331?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item35a35cc3cb

This seems a better bet because the spare nozzles & gun can be got from CPC or Farnell.
regards Rob

Kingston

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 08:15:44 AM »
What do you need it for, more specifically?

You say you've been using the hand pump. That thing is destruction encased in a tube and should only be used for really large blobs to get the initial mass out.

But for everything else there's solder wick, the one with rosin in it. Works well even for SMD work. In my opinion even better than most good desoldering guns, but maybe I just haven't used a really good and well kept one..

mrclunk

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 09:40:06 AM »
Our new console could do with a bit of a recap too and I've been eyeballing those same desoldering irons.

Farnell sell the Duratool one, but it looks suspiciously like a really crap soldering iron i bought from Maplins once.
The Chinese one is more interesting but i've never used any desolderer before.

Kingston what brand of wick do you use, always found it to be pretty crap personally.
paul
(get well soon rob, so we can have a pint init)

Rob Flinn

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 10:03:31 AM »
I have used wick in the past & it's been good, but useless if you're desoldering on a ground plane, where it just sucks the heat away.

The only one I've used is the Denon, which is really good, but 375 quid !!

Ideally I'd like one that is slef contained without a base unit, because I work away/abroad & it would be better if it were light

Paul should be allowed to neck beer in a few weeks, but the doc's forbade it for the moment....even tonight !!
regards Rob

Kingston

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 10:30:28 AM »
Kingston what brand of wick do you use, always found it to be pretty crap personally.

"chem-wick" or "solder-wick", they're the same thing. example: http://www.partco.biz/verkkokauppa/product_info.php?products_id=11581

I think you might have mistakenly used some wick that has no rosin included if you've had problems. That stuff is plain crap, completely pointless actually.

But even with the good wick there are certain techniques and you need a good 50-watt iron. At the most difficult and cramped spaces you need to apply extra rosin.

I've never had problems with ground planes and solder wick, but I can imagine a dirty/crusty soldering iron tip and too low temperatures will make it very difficult.

zayance

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 10:37:47 AM »
i use That Solder-wick, for making it easier i actually add a little bit of solder to it, so when reheated on the pad solder finds its way quickly and nicely, but sometime it just doesn't work good, and solder pump gets the job done, but got to be quick as said in another discussion about this, and me too i would be interested on those desoldering guns, seems like many people use them with good result.
Hakko is "ok" price in US, but when you want a 220V it's expensive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 10:39:42 AM by zayance »

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 10:46:16 AM »
I've got the Hakko 808 and De-non 7000. To be honest, the 808 gets more use... Part of this is the cost of spares for the De-non.

This is something that'll revolutionise your whole engineering world, Rob. I'm surprised you haven't got one before.

Buy the 808. For what you'll save (50 quid tops? Can you claim back import VAT?) it jst isn't worth faffing around with others. The 808 is probably as good as the mega-bucks Weller stations I've used in the past. In fact, it's probably easier to clean and you don't worry about replacement parts costing a fortune. I use my 808 off a 3A variac. I guess you could scour Ebay for a dedicated t.former for it.

Justin
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

Rob Flinn

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 10:58:06 AM »
Hi Justin.

The problem with the Hakko is that it is really expensive to get one which operates off European mains voltage, the cheap places in the states only seem to sell 115v versions.  If you have any odeas where to get it for less than 200 quid I'd be interested to know of them.

Kingston

I have had plenty of experience with wicks, I've recapped 2 big desks using it.  The ground plane thing is a definite problem.  Try recapping MCI 500 series channel strips where the board is double sided with big areas of ground planes both sides.   I don't think the problem there was specifically the solder wick, it was just getting enough heat into the track.   The De-non gun handled it with no problems at all.  In my experience using a gun like the Hakko is a much better option than wick.  Have you ever used one ?
regards Rob

mjk

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 12:00:45 PM »
I'll echo the recommendation for the 808. Maybe you could get a US model plus a nice useful 240=>120 stepdown/isolation transformer for the price of the 220 mains version. I have no experience with the other models; the 808 just works great for me.

I've gone over to making PCBs for protptypes because it's so easy to swap components many times without lifting pads or tearing out holes. Also makes it a breeze to rework discrete wiring. The solder blob on a UTC transformer terminal can take a foot or more of braid, but with the pump there's no waste. And it's faster, even with frequent cleaning breaks.

Cheers,

Michael

Probably goes without saying, but a dab of flux during desoldering can help a lot, whether using braid or a pump
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 12:03:43 PM by mjk »


Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 12:58:34 PM »
Even at 200 quid it's a bargain. Seriously. You'll never look back. It sucks harder than the Cameron government.

I have a 3A variac for general testing duties. It spends most of its time powering the US-voltage 808. Bear in mind the 808 (from memory) takes about 175W, so you need a fairly large converter.

J

edit - note that I use wick and a pump for certain other duties where a vacuum station isn't suitable. I couldn't ever conceive re-capping a console with wick - that's seriously hardcore on one's patience... Aside from that, the 808 applies heat quickly, minimising the time you're heating the pad...the same cannot be said for wick. Spring pumps are a lottery - you need a really steady hand...and they'll never do a PTH PCB well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 01:02:38 PM by thermionic »
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

owel

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2010, 01:20:42 PM »
I bought a station that has a desoldering gun that looks similar to that 995 model. IT SUCKS.... VERY BAD.  I threw it away.

Seriously, get the Hakko 808. The only thing you'll regret about the 808 is not buying it sooner... preferably at the same time you bought your soldering iron setup.

zayance

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 01:23:21 PM »
Quote
Bear in mind the 808 (from memory) takes about 175W, so you need a fairly large converter.

70W from data of Tequipment, hmm yes a convertor of 200W could do the job, so simple that it didn't cross my mind  ::).

PS: anything good to have in spare, talking about accessories or diff. tips?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 01:26:49 PM by zayance »

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2010, 01:30:05 PM »
I once gave a link to an 808 clone here to a guy... He wasn't happy about it, at all... Owel is right - you'll wonder how you survived all those years without one.

J
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

owel

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2010, 01:37:16 PM »
My unit says 100W (not 175 or 70w) and made in JAPAN. 



Get tips of different hole sizes. 

And FILTERS... don't skimp on filters or be lazy changing it. (Otherwise, you might have to disassemble the gun and pump assembly and clean the hardened flux sticking on the pump mechanism...  time consuming, and not as easy as just changing the filters in the first place.)

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2010, 01:41:23 PM »
Quote
made in JAPAN

Worth repeating :-)

Note to self: order more filters

BTW - Is there a table-top stand for the 808? I have one for the De-non, but it won't fit the 808.
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

owel

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 03:17:44 PM »
Quote
BTW - Is there a table-top stand for the 808? I have one for the De-non, but it won't fit the 808.

Yes, there's a stand for the 808.
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/0460-0079/Hakko-633-02


Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 03:19:54 PM »
Cool - thanks!
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

sodderboy

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 05:44:41 PM »
I recommend this unit:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AOYUE-474-desoldering-station-/290516279340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43a41ea02c

I got it in the states, with the second soldering iron.  It has been through 3 consoles this year plus multitrack cards and outboard all over the New York area.  I would not get the dual unit again, but I will buy a second desolder only.  The tiny iron was not of much use to me.

I do not recommend braid for large jobs.  You spend too much time on the trace and there is a percentage of lift that is non-existent with a good desoldering tool.  Braid is also time consuming.  Depending on the unit, component and solder removal are done in the same step.
I have used the 808, but I find it fatiguing for big jobs.  There is some weight involved with the good but big motor.
I would not touch the original linked tool.  They are using a tiny motor as the vacuum, and they are defensive due to so many complaints. 

The best thing I learned about any desoldering station is to store the gun upside down between sucks and not how the manufacturer has you do it.  Upside down naturally keeps the innards cleaner that pointing the tip down.  Really.
Mike

mrclunk

Re: Anyone used one of these desoldering guns ?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2011, 07:06:44 AM »
So i've been doing some more searching.
I can't afford a new Hakko 808, about 100 pound is my budget...

Found these:-
http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/desoldering-hot-air-rework-c-8.html

This one looks like the clone Mike mentions above but is only on the american website.
I've emailed circuit specialist EU to see if they can get a couple.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10146
---------
Had a reply from Circuit specialists.
Quote
Thanks for your enquiry.
We don't currently have the CSI 474a here in the EU.
We will likely add it to our range in the coming months, but that is likely to be March/April at least before it's here.

We currently have the CSI 701A, which is effectively the CSI 474 with a 35W iron:

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-701a-soldering-desoldering-rework-station-with-iron-p-187.html

or the BK 4000, which is the same unit from a function perspective, just with the BK finish to it, including the much more robust extruded aluminium casing and updated design:

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/blackjack-solderwerks-thruhole-desoldering-station-bk-4000-p-175.html


They also have some cheap oem psu's, the 24V 1amp one caught my eye. Only 12pounds
http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/24v-power-supply-11a-25watt-single-output-hf25wsl24-p-137.html

----------------
Found this in the UK too.
AOYUE-474
http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=products&product_id=92
http://www.allendale-stores.co.uk/pcb/manuals/aoyue_474.pdf

« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 10:53:31 AM by mrclunk »


 

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