Best capsule for something DIY KM56-esque?

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ed rees

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
108
Hello,
Are there any small diameter nickel capsules available for a DIY Neumann KM56 sort of mic?

Not wanting to scratch build much, other than the body and screen. I was thinking two TSB electrets back to back might come close, If I remove the FETs and modify the capsules to expose the diaphragm better.


Bit of a whim at the moment, but I'll share the results if/when it comes to fruition.
 
If you're after the 'nickel sound' you might be able to find some Gefell / RFT (the old name of the company) / Neumann capsules with nickel capsules on german ebay for reasonable money - but there's nothing like the dual capsule in the KM56 as far as I know (I guess that's the same capsule as in the SM2?). There are 2 types, M70 and M94 which have nickel capsules as far as I know. Substituting the Neumann capsule with 2 electrets seems a bit like a Porsche with a Beetle engine.

Michael
 
Hi,




  fwiw, I have a Schoeps badged as Phillips. CM61. Same capsule as the 221. I had the capsule reskinned by Schoeps, who no longer use Nickel. They used mylar(I think), and i cannot tell the difference. I am not able to AB of course, but I knew this mic very well before reskinning, and I was very worried the magic might be lost. Not the case.

  Can wholeheartedly recommend Gefell M70 capsules. I have a bunch.


    Kindest regards,


    ANdyP
 
The problem, I guess, is finding a dual SD capsule. I wouldn't know anyone who makes anything like that anymore.

Short of that, I would go the KM86 route and use two SD cardioid capsules back to back. The KM86 sounds very different from the KM88 (which is the last of the dual nickels), but it does sound nice. Very nice, in fact. You won't get a tight figure 8 pattern, though, with a KM86-style capsule arrangement. That said, the faux figure 8 can be useful at a wider mic distance as it retains better bass response.

I would look for decent capsules such as the Rode NT5 or Studio Projects C4 cardioids. Maybe a Behringer B5 will do or an MXL603. There is a bit of a problem with those capsules in the fact that they rely on their usual mic body for their cardioid pattern. You will have to experiment a bit with mounting them.

I wouldn't use a cheapo electret capsule for a project like that. The capsule is by far the most important part of any mic.
 
Very good suggestions, thank you. I like the C4 and MXL, will choose from one of those two.

I'm looking at the EC70/6778 or EC71/5718 for the tube. These have a 4.65k plate resistance, so I think that I need a 5000:200 transformer. Will probably go with Lundahl for that.

Would a similar sized electret even work the same as a small capsule? For $10 a pair, I'm tempted to do my experimenting with those, and switch to better ones once everything else is squared away.
 
I agree with Rossi on the usefulness of the back to back capsule arrangement on the KM86.  Even in cardioid this mic sound quite different to the KM84 which shares the same capsule.  I imagine that constructing a DIY mic with this capsule arrangement would be hard work.  As it happens I'll be selling my KM86s in the coming while to fund changes to my gear and life. I'll miss them, they are killer drum overheads.

I'll also add my voice to Rossi's when he says not to skimp on the capsule.  My experience with Geffel stuff has been very good.

Have fun,
Ruairi


 
Michael Tibes said:
If you're after the 'nickel sound' you might be able to find some Gefell / RFT (the old name of the company) / Neumann capsules with nickel capsules on german ebay for reasonable money - but there's nothing like the dual capsule in the KM56 as far as I know (I guess that's the same capsule as in the SM2?). There are 2 types, M70 and M94 which have nickel capsules as far as I know. Substituting the Neumann capsule with 2 electrets seems a bit like a Porsche with a Beetle engine.

Michael

Hello Michael,

According to David Satz, who had two KM54s (one with original Nickel capsule, and another re-skinned with Mylar), he could not tell any difference between them, so the "nickel sound" might be a bit of overstatement (albeit, very popular). I had SM2 ones, and yes, they use KM56.

The Gefell capsules are excellent (I have 4 M94s), but one has to be aware, they have a "built in" bass roll-off, to compensate for proximity effect with close-up miking.

I'd second Rossi's suggestion about NT5 or SP C4, whichever is cheaper and has better customer service at your location.

Best, M

 
Marik said:
According to David Satz, who had two KM54s (one with original Nickel capsule, and another re-skinned with Mylar), he could not tell any difference between them, so the "nickel sound" might be a bit of overstatement (albeit, very popular). I had SM2 ones, and yes, they use KM56.

Hi Marik,

that's interesting, I wasn't aware that nickel capsules could be reskinned with mylar, it hadn't even come to my mind. The Nickel types I have (SM2 / KM54 / M70 / M94) all seem to have a similiar tonal characteristic, so I attributed this to the nickel capsule. It would be interesting to try reskinning some Gefell capsules wiht mylar, do you know who might do that and how much it might be?

Best, Michael
 
Mr. Thiersch in Germany will do nickel.  Don't know his fee.
Look around in the forums for Klaus Heyne.  He is in Oregon; seems as though he knows the German mic gurus.  I've experimented with nickel on an old mic, but I'm not comfortable yet trying it on a Neumann.  The thin nickel must be electrolytically "grown"; one wrong move and you've lost a lot of time.
 

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