How close can I come to a Digi002 for LESS $?

Hello,

I am putting together a first PC-Based recording system and I have all the components but the Audio card/controller.

I was originally considering the Digi002 (non rack) but have begun to hear that it is very overpriced--that one can get the same bang for much less Buck.

I am quite new at this, and while price is not necessarily a very serious object, I would like to get something that will allow me as much flexibility, quality and ease of use as possible for the money.

Some have suggested the RME Nightfall but as I am new, I don't know if this is the best choice.

Any suggestions? Here is my system:

Asus P4P800
Intel P4 3.0G 800FSB (Northwood C not 533FSB Northwood B)
512Mb PC3200 DDR400
Lite-On burner- I'd go for a Pioneer 107D DVD-RW though! 30
WD 800JB 7,200rpm System
WD 360GD 10,000rpm SATA Audio
ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FCA)-430 Watt

Thanks!

Dr. L.

:roll:
posting on multiple forums ...
will be interesting to see if you get different answers.

I was originally considering the Digi002 (non rack) but have begun to hear that it is very overpriced--that one can get the same bang for much less Buck.

Click to expand...

Then get the 002 rack.
I still think PT is one of the cheapest and most flexible options.

This can all come down to the need and want to use the PT software. The Digi hardware comes with the software and some of the other hardware choices require a software package to be purchased separately. Some people don't buy their software and obviously it is hard to compare if that is the case.

I stopped worrying about Computer Hardware long ago. Give me just about any computer and a 001 + Ai3 and I can record. I then take the drive and load it into a TDM system for mix down.

I have one word of warning.
The newer Firewire/IEEE1394 based units like the 002 may require some research with respect to the computer and your port choices. I have not done this yet but do plan to have a 002 very soon. I'm not saying to stay away from Firewire as it will probably end up the default choice ... the PCI slot will eventually disappear.

i think sombody mentioned to me you can save alot of cash by buying a 002 rack and a mackie control surface (dunno which one), and getting essentially the same outcome.

...folks, for your replies.

Always appreciate the thoughtfulness and generosity.

Very Best for the Holiday to You and Yours,

Dr. L.

If you are a new starter to recording and DAWs then I don't think a big spend up is cool.

Keep it simple to start with as things move too fast and there is much to learn.

Lets not have the ProTools argument here.
We don't like MicroSoft but everyone tend to still use Word and Excel.
If you want to use ProTools then you will need a to purchase one of their Hardware /software packages.

There is a book I could write here .... :roll:

I still think a second hand 001 at a bargain price so you don't feel bad about throwing it away in a years time. Especially as you are on a PC and probably XPpro. Once a year is up you have much experience and knowledge to make better choices then.


If you are buying new.
002 is firewire and is current. the 001 has ended software support so you will be stuck on 6.4 ... I think the AMIII is stuck on 6.3.
001 doesn't work in a Mac G5

Ai3 is a Lightpipe interface from Alesis to give the 001 and 002 the extra 8 audio ins and outs.
There is a B unit and a few others.
Look for the thread here that talks about mods for the B unit
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=3243

Key thing with any of this stuff is to get the basics working correctly and believe me when I say, too many people don't get that right.


errr
that's enough for now

I would recommend posting on recording.org

Why :shock: ??

I'm here and did see the rec.org one but chose to post here as I usually just get into an argument over there when it comes to ProTools.

I have been posting the same answers for years and the bulk of the guys there either have stollen software or just plain don't get it.

[duck Kev ... incoming !]

I have a few PT LE systems OS9, OSX and XP and I transfer stuff to and from Mac/TDM.
Currently it is an HD sytem but only a few months ago it was MixPlus.

Kurt will tell you he uses the Ai3 just as I do.
I think I had one nearly a year before Kurt.

OK
I have not yet tested the 002 on either platform. I know there some issues with both hardware and software BUT they can be overcome and the Digi Rep will have all the tricks.
Ask about the Digi Survival Kit.... :roll: ... oops that might have been a secret.


:green:
For some Christmas fun and the GearSlutz idea of 003 and 004 and the new Mercenary Edition check out
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=24137

have I caused enough trouble for one day ?
... run away ... run away

i suggest deciding on which software you want to run. im on a mac, but im planning to port over to Logic very soon.


dig this:

MOTU 896HD - EIGHT channels of 192/24!!!

700$ on ebay


logic w/student discount - 500$ (ebay, even if your not a student :grin: )

sooo. 1200$ and youve got 8 channels of 192/24 and a FULL version of Logic, not some SH*TTY F*kIN LE BS.

see how much 8 channels of digi 192 will cost you.

HD1 and accel card and tdm = about 6-8000$

riiiight.

i am not sure what the 002 cost, but i use the m audio delta 1010 on a pc. it is great, 8 bal in/out +4 -10 spdif in and out midi in out. mine uses a pci card. i think it is around 500-600. it is not my main system, it is set up on a pc for certain applications ie reason, bfd etc

What are the advantages of the MOTU 896HD vs. the MOTU 828mkII?

I think the 896 has XLR inputs?

I agree with the MOTU suggestion. I love their boxes and you can get them used super cheap. When I wanted to get started with the DAW world, I bought two older MOTU interfaces, the 1224 and 24i for $700 total. I got a discounted version of Cubase SX 2.0 (got it from someone I knew who used to work for Pinnacle... $175!). So I had 32 analog inputs and 12 analog outputs for less than $1k. Of course, those interfaces only do up to 24bit 48kHz, but I've since added a 2408MKIII which can do 24/96.

ProTools is cool because it's the industry standard but you can get more for your money if you look.

The 828MkII has up to 96kHz sample rate and two mic pres with XLR/combo jacks and the 896 goes up to 192kHz and has eight pres.

Probably easier to look here: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/body.html/en

The one I have my eye on, though, is the new Traveler that is tiny, has four mic pres, SMPTE sync and is powered from the firewire bus (or external battery).

They all include AudioDesk software that lets you import or export Pro Tools sessions.

I'll say that I do prefer Pro Tools (LE) only because it's by far the easiest midi/audio sequencer I've seen, when it comes to operation and really does not get in the way of making music.

I think bang for buck there isn't much else that gets close to a 002R considering you're actually getting the PT LE software with the hardware. The only way I can see anyone getting themself a better deal than this is if they're planning on using a cracked version of Sonar, Cubase SX, Nuendo or Logic ect ect... Keep in mind PT LE software has a limitation of 32 tracks.

You're PC looks to be well spec'd for PT LE and probably will only require an Adaptec firewire card and possibly another 512Mb of memory.

As Kev pointed out the 002(R) and 001 have ADAT lightpipe interfaces if you ever need the extra inputs and apart from Alesis and B* there are many 8 channel ADAT interfaces on the market now. PT LE hardware also comes with an ASIO driver making it possible to use with those above mentioned 3rd party sequencers.

I must say having a 001 myself (and although it works great for me) I'm not impressed at having no more software support with 6.4cs9 being the last supported for the 001. I know support is always going to end at some point it's disappointing considering how many of them are still in use (which is probably why digi pulled the pin).

[quote author="BladeSG"]... I'm not impressed at having no more software support with 6.4cs9 being the last supported for the 001. ....
....(which is probably why digi pulled the pin). [/quote]

added to that is the fact that home turff for PT is the Mac and the G5 doesn't support the PCI style of the AMIII and 001.
Some Adaptec SCII cards and High End Video editing cards suffered the same end.

As far as the 001 is concerned ... just keep it with that computer.
Get a new beast and a 002.

My last couple of recordings have been done in a quiet location out in the country.
Using a 001 system on XP as the main system.
A second system in one of the out-houses with a Mac G4.
wait for it ...
then a lap top with an m-Box roaming all over the place.
Including some cello tracks recorded at the end of the garden out in the sun shine ... birds and all ... :green:

Tracks from all systems ended up in the final mixers and we were swapping ideas from all systems during the two week record.

Removable hard drives, usb sticks and CDroms ... whatever it took ... some hurdles at times but it all worked.
Then back home for a TDM mixdown.
I'll tack the complete sessions to the Mastering Suite and if a mix tweak is needed, I can do it there.

yeah ... don't use ProTools.

I have friends in the game that do know what they are doing and Nuendo is their choice. Heavily into audio for video and film. These guys also use Fairlight and Neve AMS Logic.

We all have old computer cards and interfaces that are now defunct,
Korg1212
Echo
AM2
Sample cell cards
Cream-Ware
Apogee
Fairlight


it happens and it does hurt


As far as the 192k stuff goes ... check out George and Brad's forums over at PSW for some real heavy discussions on the pros and cons of clocking this fast ...
way over my head at this stage.

One last point,
calibrate your system and get to know it
That goes for levels, time delays and latency ... don't assume anything.

Go Soundscape and never look back!
It simply is the most stable DAW on the planet. I have in a full booked studio less than 1 crash per year btw, check the forum of Soundscape and see how fanatic everyone is about "their system"
www.sydec.be

For the price of a PT002 you get a top professional solution with a lot of extra's.

Been a user since 1994 and have only needed to upgrade hardware once, and with a royal reduction from Sydec, mothercompany of Soundscape, btw.

Compared to PT you save up to 2/3 of your time when heavy into editing, i've done this test numberous times;
starting with the same arrangement on both MAC/PT and my PC/Soundscape. I'm back from a coffeebreak while the PT-guy is still making fades and crossfades to declick etc...

If you want to check this out at my place, feel free anytime!

Cheers,

Tony.

PS we're also FULL PT compatible, both ways reading and writing in both PC and MAC platforms.

[quote author="tony dB"]... I'm back from a coffeebreak while the PT-guy is still making fades and crossfades to declick etc...

If you want to check this out at my place, feel free anytime!

... we're also FULL PT compatible, both ways reading and writing in both PC and MAC platforms.[/quote]

???
:?
I don't take long with fades.
must be a work flow or method thing ??

Take Tony up on his offer. :thumb:
The more info you have, the better off you will be to make an informed choice.
If Tony is nearby I'm sure he will help with your set-up. I think this is the post important part of getting started with a DAW. Help should be nearby.
I'm sure that if I were to jump ship many in my area would follow me.
No not a hero ... just the local help desk. Likewise I am influence by a friend further up the food and info chain. We have been MOA since SoundTools on the Atari.
you get that

Beware audio editors on the Linux platform ... I am convinced this is were many of us will end up.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

FULL PT compatible...

Click to expand...

but not with mixer set and plug layout ... ???

Kev,

the thing about the fades etc is that it's only one click and no crossfades to be made in Soundscape, many PT users have to go back and forth to get the crossing point right. That's just one point of difference...
Ask as many techs who worked on both platforms for a while and they all agree that Soundscape is (until today) unbeatable in terms of manipulationspeed and reliability.
Concerning the plugins, that mainly because PT is sooo protective that they don't want to share how they connect. We have all vst-plugins possible tough.

Cheers,

Tony

In Cubase it's one key for crossfades as well but you can edit them further if you like.

Thanks Tony,
:roll:
I get that only in part.
I'd have to see what people are doing in context as for the most part while editing I don't do a great deal of cross fading.

As I said it may all have to do with workflow and method.

Sometimes after a coffee break I come back into the controll room and I see members of the band and asociates having an edit. I watch for a minute then ask ... what are you doing ?
:green:
Get out of the way ... let Kev in.
ohh s and ahhhs ... how did you do that ?

I don't over complicate things and use very old methods learnt from DECK and so, will work of any DAW.

The cross fade and fade thing has never been as fast as it is with a Fairlight and to watch an experience operator with some line command stuff is stunning. These guys have macros and stuff just happens ... :shock:


As for plugs,
yeah
From a time when I started with ProTools and the Plug Parteners where very important influence on my decision to now where I just don't care. Having just left OS9 and Mix where I had ALL the plugs ... I have now reduced my plug set to only my favs.
Funny ... mixing is so much easier.
Plugs for EFFECT and Music construnction is quite different and having the plugs on tap along with soft synths is very important.

I'm just lucky that for now I am doing the traditional guitar, drums and sing sort of production.
My synth mates have hardware so I'm somewhat OFF the hook.

... still I do like having the Virus on tap in HD.

[quote author="Lalalala"]What are the advantages of the MOTU 896HD vs. the MOTU 828mkII?[/quote]

the main advantage is that the 896 has 8 mic preamps. 192khz, is sort of a marketing tool. you probably will hear little to no difference between 192 and 96, and 192 will eat up your hard disk space and processor twice as fast.

i would reccommend getting an 828 or 828mkii and running dp(or any other software i guess, but i like dp). you can find the original 828 for about 350 on ebay, and they are still pretty good. you could put the money saved into a better quality microphone, which will probably make more difference than getting an interface that costs twice or 3 times as much.

instead of spending 300 on a mic and 1300 on interface, reverse that. you can get better mic pres later too, but i think a good mic like the soundelux u195 or some of the cheaper gefells, or a pair of sd mics like the josephson c42 would be a wiser investment.