Lorlin Or Grayhill Switches? Opinions?

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ruckus328

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
906
Location
Philadelphia, USA
OK, looking for some opinions here on if using the grayhill switches would be a smart move.  I'm working on something that I had originally planned to use lorlin switches on as the price and availability make them appealing for DIY.

However, I'm really considering switching over to the grayhill type, but my impression is that it may put alot of people off as they come with a higher price tag and a little harder to source.  I'm dealing with an extremely dense front panel board, so switching to the grayhill solves ALOT of engineering issues and gives me roughly 50% more panel space as they're about half the size.  If it were just for me what I'd really love to go with the right angle dual gang type as they come in multiple gangs and opens the possibility to all kinds of things that couldn't otherwise be done with the lorlin type.  But those come with an extremely high price tag (roughly $25 each), so I think that's probably not a smart move, but at the very least I'd like to switch to the vertical grayhill type which run around $10 or so.

Anyways, opinions would be appreciated.  Thx.
 
I have used both types. As you say the Lorlin are incredibly cheap but of limited flexibility. The Grayhill are a lot more expensive, but much more flexible and much better made. If you are building something for yourself, budget is tight and it will only get light use I would say use the Lorlins. If you want something to last for years and perform well every single day I would go with the Grayhills.


I use Grayhills just about all the time now the main reason being that the multi-wafer PCB versions are perfect for simplifying wiring.

Cheers

Ian
 
Thx for the input.  Well, as I mentioned, this will be for a DIY project, and it's something I imagine will get daily use in a studio.  And actually, after some more looking I realized that I'll have to use the right angle type,

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=GH7106-ND

which are about $20 each, as the cheaper vertical type grayhills only come in 1/8" shafts, and there's also a number of pots (which typically are 1/4" shafts).  So don't want to mix and match shaft sizes for the sake of knobs matching.  Plus I prefer the 1/4" shafts anywasy (just seems a little beefier).

You bring up a wonderful point though which is also one of the main reasons I'm contemplating the change to grayhills - doing so eliminates a TON of wiring and enables me to do it all with a single ribbon cable back to the main board.  I could still do what I'm planning with lorlins, but then we're talking basically a ribbon cable for each switch as I won't have the control panel space for all the associated parts.  So by the time we're done adding up the adiditonal costs for all the additional ribbon cable connectors, the costs difference window starts to close.  Basically it becomes the difference between $80 a unit for the grayhills or $40 a unit for the lorlins.  I guess the reality is if you're on a budget you could stil use the lorlin solder cup type and wire each pin to the board, but involves a little more assembly obviously.
 
I would also go for Grayhills. Had too many nasty problems with Lorlins (bad contacts and noise in my G9 especially!).

Cheers,
CC
 
ruckus328 said:
You bring up a wonderful point though which is also one of the main reasons I'm contemplating the change to grayhills - doing so eliminates a TON of wiring and enables me to do it all with a single ribbon cable back to the main board. 

That is exactly why I mentioned it. You have probably seen this thread about my recent Pultec/Helios EQ rack prototype. That was all done with solder bucket Grayhills and the extensive point to point wiring was a PITA.


http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43503.0

Cheers

Ian


 
Yea, I'm doing it, grayhills it is.  Think I figured out a way to make everyone happy too.  Just going to add a .1" single row header underneath and connected to the grayhill footprint to accomodate external wiring to the lorlin type if one so chooses.  Problem solved.  Will also allow me to exploit all the new possibilities with using the grayhills's.  If you use lorlins you won't be able to get full use of these added features, but that's that.

Now, next item......little off topic but...... pots?  What do you guys recommend that is up to par with the quality of the switches?  I'd really like to go with a PCB mount solution, but having trouble finding what I need in a variety of values.  Don't think grayhill makes pots, do they?  Anyone know what this "add-a-pot" thing is they have on all thier switch datasheets?
 
Bourns and Clarostat...
Go for conductive plastic or military grade carbon (PEC).
Finding them for PCB might be tricky.. Try Audiomaintenance..

 
I don't resent that as a big issue, but I have more of a problem with the fact that reverse log are extremely difficult to get and in particular those suitable for gain control in "Cohen" mic preamps (RevLog 3% at mid position).
 
..for a all-DIY-project, there may be a problem in designing for Grayhill's - that they are not common outside the USA, and can be very hard to find in more remote parts of the world. This is the main reason why I went for Lorlin/CK type switches in my DIY-projects.

But if you have a way of supplying the switches (or a well-covering international distributing company with the right types in stock), Grayhill or Elma are very nice to work with.

Jakob E.
 
Without trying to dilute the original question too much  :), is there much difference between lorlin type switches? I've seen some made by alpha (usually light blue). How do these compare with actual Lorlins in terms of feel/quality?

cheers
chris
 
chrispbass said:
Without trying to dilute the original question too much  :), is there much difference between lorlin type switches. I've seen some made by alpha (usually light blue). How do these compare with actual Lorlins in terms of feel/quality?

I prefer the feel of the Alpha types (from Rapid) Its a slightly lighter action than the Lorlins but with more of a chunky switching action.
As for quality i've no idea...
 
Well I'm going to leave the option to use Lorlins as well (have a couple ideas of how I'll do this), but design is being done with the greyhills in mind.

Problem I'm having now is how to secure my control board.  Since it'll be at a right angle now it'll be dangling in mid air, and I'm very reluctant to secure it to the bottom of the enclosure, main reason being if the bottom of the enclosure flexes it's going to put tension on the control board.  Really best thing to do would be secure the front panel to the bottom of the enclosure via some sort of "L" bracket (turn them into a solid member), but then that would require either a pem pressed in the front panel or an unsightly screw head :(

Looking at the EZ1084EQ actually, it's similar to what I'll be doing as far as the greyhills and pots, and I see they've just mounted them directly the main board which is secured to the bottom.  I see some sort of bracket though center of board against the front panel, that might be exactly what I'm referring to as far as the l bracket idea, anyone know?

If anyone has any other ideas of best way to secure it I'm all ears.  Or if anyone can point me to some other 1U projects that use the greyhills might help me figure out the best way to do this.  Thx.
 
Hey Mike,

This is a tough one for sure.  How many Grayhills are going to be on the control board?
If your control board isn't very wide/deep, I would be ok with letting it be held by the Grayhills only.
If the board is deep, the weight may become an issue and at this point, I would only support the back or middle of the board.

It's when you secure the board to the bottom of the case close to the front panel that it becomes a problem with tension on the solder joints.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Mike, it'll be 4 greyhills, a few pots, and also some F2UEE pushbutton switches.  I had wanted the board to extend to where the pots are as well, so that they could be easily wired right to the control panel via rigid bus wire instead of having to have cable runs/connectors to bring the pot wiring to the control board (if you can picture what I mean).  The F2UEE pushbuttons alone would require I bolt the control board down, as if it's suspending in mid air unsupported it's going to be subjected to stress everytime those pushbuttons are pressed, as they don't secure to the front panel.  To me this is a real big issue with all of the typical enclosures out there - that the front panel is basically it's own member, and has no structural continuity with the rest of the enclosure.  My main background is actually mechanical engineering, so enclosure/metalwork is a daily routine for me, but here at the plant most of our enclosures are completely custom anyways, so usually avoid stuff like this from the get go, and this is a little tricky, as it needs to be very simple so anyone can do it, cheap, and most importantly universal, I can think of a few easy ways to address it, but whether or not these solutions are practical for DIY is another story, so a 2nd opinion is welcomed.

Simplest solutions I can think of:

1) Design an L bracket - one vertical side of the L mounts to the front panel, the other side the board mounts to.  I could use the Pot and/or greyhill mounting locations for mounting the L bracket to the front panel (So it would get sandwhiched between the front panel and switches/pots, and no need to have to drill or stare at a screw head on the front panel).  This wouldn't come into contact with the bottom panel at all.  This seems the sturdiest solution to me, easiest for assembly, protects against impacts, but will be fairly large size and probably add $10-$20 of cost to this thing.

2) Have an L bracket that connects between the front panel and bottom panel, essentially turning the 2 into one solid member.  This could be stock 3/16" or 1/8" aluminum L channel cut to length (1" to 1.5" long should be plenty).  Hole on the horizontal and maybe a slot on the vertical to allow for different enclosure height variations.  Again for this I could just pick up the pot locations for mounting it to the front panel.  You'd have to drill the hole on the bottom enclosure for it but would be plenty easy to line up and drill.  2 of these evenly spaced (more or less) across the front panel would probably be plenty.  Leaning towards doing this as seems to me this is probably the most practical and cheapest way to go, something like this will only run a couple bucks a piece.  Wouldn't be a bad idea really to do this on any build, as it would strengthen up the bottom of the enclosure for anything (and also keep the front panel from bowing).

 
I like solution 1 best but you'll have to be careful and account for the inner 'lip' that most/all bottom and top case lids have.  This eats up serious front panel real estate and may not allow your bracket to sit tight against the panel.  I know that those lips are what strengthen the lids at the front of the case so, they're still kind of required...

Sort of same deal with solution 2...

I've thought about this a long while myself and find that the best solution would be a custom case where a 'faux' front panel and bottom lid are made out of the same sheet and form a giant L-bracket.  Drill the holes in the faux panel and attach the real front panel over.  That's a bit simplified but you get the idea.

If someone was willing to offer cases like that, it'd be a winner in my book!  API does a similar thing for their 1RU back panels IIRC.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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