singer with automatic tone control in her voice

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pucho812

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Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
 
my ol' ball and chain has a similar 'condition,'  it's a throat thing with her as far as i can tell.  might your subject trend towards the alto range?  i typically just split her duties into separate takes depending on program material, then ride the eq where needed in the appropriate frequencies.  PITA to be sure, but i'd rather get a confident/competent performance and augment after the fact than have her put an hour of our time into picking the best of mediocre takes.
 
shabtek said:
dual micin'?

been there.


grantlack said:
my ol' ball and chain has a similar 'condition,'  it's a throat thing with her as far as i can tell.  might your subject trend towards the alto range?  i typically just split her duties into separate takes depending on program material, then ride the eq where needed in the appropriate frequencies.  PITA to be sure, but i'd rather get a confident/competent performance and augment after the fact than have her put an hour of our time into picking the best of mediocre takes.


yes a throat thing. I can only suggest that it's a breathing thing. you know how like a horn player can go flat without proper air flow. So yeah eq rides a must.  switching mics is a given for different parts.  Just have to really be attentive and lucky for me pitch and timing are always spot on so asking a redo of a section is not a problem.
 
pucho812 said:
Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
The remedy is well known, put a 100pF cap between wiper and top of the volume pot  :D
You may be cautious when getting access to it, not to touch the thyroid gland...
More seriously, you may want to experiment with a dynamic EQ, such as the one from Brainworx
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_dyneq_v2?PHPSESSID=ovvrjkgtso0oplsud5t6jgl6j4
I've tried it and it's convincing; I'm not a fan of plug-ins, but this maybe one that I'll be living with.
 
first thing that comes to my mind is multiband compression, but that would be a plugin, and I'm guessing that wasn't the answer you were looking for.  Waves C4 is a good one.  You could isolate just the freq. band in question and only apply compression/limiting there.
 
abbey road d enfer said:
pucho812 said:
Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
The remedy is well known, put a 100pF cap between wiper and top of the volume pot  :D
You may be cautious when getting access to it, not to touch the thyroid gland...
More seriously, you may want to experiment with a dynamic EQ, such as the one from Brainworx
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_dyneq_v2?PHPSESSID=ovvrjkgtso0oplsud5t6jgl6j4
I've tried it and it's convincing; I'm not a fan of plug-ins, but this maybe one that I'll be living with.



ah yes dynamic eq's. could have used that yesterday...
 
It is just the physics of how me make sound... Louder sounds excite more overtones which adds HF content, same thing for musical instruments, pianissimo flute is almost a pure sine wave, louder flute sounds are more complex.  

So it is the natural sound for singing quiet vs singing loud.

But.. to answer your question, what is missing is overtones (harmonics) so the effects box designed to do that is the old Aphex Aural Exciter, or similar efx.

You could roll your own DIY exciter in a bind, but they make a box to do this, and the effect has been covered in other boxes (selectively added filtered distortion), so look at some of the underused presets in your multi-efx box/plug-ins whatever people use these days.

JR
 
Does it sound bad?  Maybe that's just how her voice is supposed to sound?

If your vocal room is dead enough, try an omni pattern.  Proximity effect always makes these situations worse and it is a singer's natural inclination to move closer when the "tone knob" is down.

I've often had two separate copies of vocal tracks with two separate EQ settings in a mix.  No shame in it.  I'd be cautious of "fixing the problem" to tape though. 
 
mushy said:
I've often had two separate copies of vocal tracks with two separate EQ settings in a mix.  No shame in it.  I'd be cautious of "fixing the problem" to tape though. 

Agree 100% with the first point here, I'm doing it on a mix today as a matter of fact with a vocal that thins out on the high parts.

I wouldn't fix to tape using an auto mixfixerizer plug but I happily ride gains, compression settings and an eq to tape if it makes for a better product.

Cheers,
Ruairi
 
I may be way off base here, but I have had similar problems, and solved them by raising the microphone.  Get the vocalist to raise her head up, de-constraining the throat. 

Sometimes handheld mics, and mic technique can cause the throat to change shape with head movement to good or bad effect.  You have indicated that the effect is undesirable.. so

Give her a nice LDC with a pop filter high on a boom mic and see what happens.

 
bruce0 said:
I may be way off base here, but I have had similar problems, and solved them by raising the microphone.  Get the vocalist to raise her head up, de-constraining the throat. 

Sometimes handheld mics, and mic technique can cause the throat to change shape with head movement to good or bad effect.  You have indicated that the effect is undesirable.. so

Give her a nice LDC with a pop filter high on a boom mic and see what happens.

well the effect was underirable to her producer. He is half way around the world doing the dance tracks the vocals go to. He is also mixing it. We are using an LDC, Went through severial before we settled on a nice tube DIY mic. Pop filters are standard. I prefer the metal ones.
I usually adjust the height so she is singing straight. forward. not looking down or up.

 
I have seen the same effect in a singer looking down to a mic, and lifting the head when projecting.  It is was very hard to correct for, and while I did it, i never liked the result.
 
pucho812 said:
well lucky I am not mixing it, just tracking it.  It does not sound bad at all, it all sounds natural to her voice.

Ohhh man you are right, but i just hate when i happen to be the guy mixing stuff like that HAHAHA
 
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