pucho812

singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« on: April 09, 2011, 08:58:37 PM »
Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


shabtek

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 01:25:56 AM »
dual micin'?
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 03:04:33 AM »
my ol' ball and chain has a similar 'condition,'  it's a throat thing with her as far as i can tell.  might your subject trend towards the alto range?  i typically just split her duties into separate takes depending on program material, then ride the eq where needed in the appropriate frequencies.  PITA to be sure, but i'd rather get a confident/competent performance and augment after the fact than have her put an hour of our time into picking the best of mediocre takes.
There's nothing like the right tool for the job.
And -usually- that's what I end up using...
..nothing like the right tool for the job!

pucho812

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 03:22:21 AM »
dual micin'?

been there.


my ol' ball and chain has a similar 'condition,'  it's a throat thing with her as far as i can tell.  might your subject trend towards the alto range?  i typically just split her duties into separate takes depending on program material, then ride the eq where needed in the appropriate frequencies.  PITA to be sure, but i'd rather get a confident/competent performance and augment after the fact than have her put an hour of our time into picking the best of mediocre takes.


yes a throat thing. I can only suggest that it's a breathing thing. you know how like a horn player can go flat without proper air flow. So yeah eq rides a must.  switching mics is a given for different parts.  Just have to really be attentive and lucky for me pitch and timing are always spot on so asking a redo of a section is not a problem.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

abbey road d enfer

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 04:30:16 AM »
Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
The remedy is well known, put a 100pF cap between wiper and top of the volume pot  :D
You may be cautious when getting access to it, not to touch the thyroid gland...
More seriously, you may want to experiment with a dynamic EQ, such as the one from Brainworx
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_dyneq_v2?PHPSESSID=ovvrjkgtso0oplsud5t6jgl6j4
I've tried it and it's convincing; I'm not a fan of plug-ins, but this maybe one that I'll be living with.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 10:00:49 AM »
first thing that comes to my mind is multiband compression, but that would be a plugin, and I'm guessing that wasn't the answer you were looking for.  Waves C4 is a good one.  You could isolate just the freq. band in question and only apply compression/limiting there.

pucho812

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 12:32:09 PM »
Cutting a vocal and the singer sounds like there is a tone control on her vocal similar to that of a guitar with just a volume knob. When she is singing on louder parts of the song(pick up with volume knob at full volume)  like a chorus her voice gets bright and when she sings on quiet parts(guitar with volume knob at say half) like a verse you can her the high end get muffled. It's not the set up as I get similar results with different mics and pres. Any suggestions on what to suggest? Outside of that timing and pitch are spot on. So. It's just a timbre thing and I can't think of what to suggest
The remedy is well known, put a 100pF cap between wiper and top of the volume pot  :D
You may be cautious when getting access to it, not to touch the thyroid gland...
More seriously, you may want to experiment with a dynamic EQ, such as the one from Brainworx
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_dyneq_v2?PHPSESSID=ovvrjkgtso0oplsud5t6jgl6j4
I've tried it and it's convincing; I'm not a fan of plug-ins, but this maybe one that I'll be living with.



ah yes dynamic eq's. could have used that yesterday...
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2011, 02:14:54 PM »
Maybe she should make some changes with how she's singing.

JohnRoberts

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 06:05:56 PM »
It is just the physics of how me make sound... Louder sounds excite more overtones which adds HF content, same thing for musical instruments, pianissimo flute is almost a pure sine wave, louder flute sounds are more complex.  

So it is the natural sound for singing quiet vs singing loud.

But.. to answer your question, what is missing is overtones (harmonics) so the effects box designed to do that is the old Aphex Aural Exciter, or similar efx.

You could roll your own DIY exciter in a bind, but they make a box to do this, and the effect has been covered in other boxes (selectively added filtered distortion), so look at some of the underused presets in your multi-efx box/plug-ins whatever people use these days.

 JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

ruairioflaherty

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 11:24:38 PM »
Go old school and ride an eq band as you track.....



Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 02:20:22 PM »
Does it sound bad?  Maybe that's just how her voice is supposed to sound?

If your vocal room is dead enough, try an omni pattern.  Proximity effect always makes these situations worse and it is a singer's natural inclination to move closer when the "tone knob" is down.

I've often had two separate copies of vocal tracks with two separate EQ settings in a mix.  No shame in it.  I'd be cautious of "fixing the problem" to tape though. 

ruairioflaherty

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2011, 04:31:42 PM »
I've often had two separate copies of vocal tracks with two separate EQ settings in a mix.  No shame in it.  I'd be cautious of "fixing the problem" to tape though. 

Agree 100% with the first point here, I'm doing it on a mix today as a matter of fact with a vocal that thins out on the high parts.

I wouldn't fix to tape using an auto mixfixerizer plug but I happily ride gains, compression settings and an eq to tape if it makes for a better product.

Cheers,
Ruairi

pucho812

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2011, 05:52:07 PM »
well lucky I am not mixing it, just tracking it.  It does not sound bad at all, it all sounds natural to her voice.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

0dbfs

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 12:53:47 PM »
If it doesn't sound bad then it's not a problem?

If this helps her sound unique then maybe make use of it in a positive way?

Cheers,
jonathan

Music is everything!
Audio is everything else!

bruce0

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 08:45:01 PM »
I may be way off base here, but I have had similar problems, and solved them by raising the microphone.  Get the vocalist to raise her head up, de-constraining the throat. 

Sometimes handheld mics, and mic technique can cause the throat to change shape with head movement to good or bad effect.  You have indicated that the effect is undesirable.. so

Give her a nice LDC with a pop filter high on a boom mic and see what happens.

 
"it was like heaven on earth, all those transformers" - cj

pucho812

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 09:14:16 AM »
I may be way off base here, but I have had similar problems, and solved them by raising the microphone.  Get the vocalist to raise her head up, de-constraining the throat. 

Sometimes handheld mics, and mic technique can cause the throat to change shape with head movement to good or bad effect.  You have indicated that the effect is undesirable.. so

Give her a nice LDC with a pop filter high on a boom mic and see what happens.

 

well the effect was underirable to her producer. He is half way around the world doing the dance tracks the vocals go to. He is also mixing it. We are using an LDC, Went through severial before we settled on a nice tube DIY mic. Pop filters are standard. I prefer the metal ones.
I usually adjust the height so she is singing straight. forward. not looking down or up.

You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

strangeandbouncy

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 09:52:46 AM »



   change the singer . . . .


   
. . . . RUH ROH . . . . .

bruce0

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011, 12:22:59 AM »
I have seen the same effect in a singer looking down to a mic, and lifting the head when projecting.  It is was very hard to correct for, and while I did it, i never liked the result.
"it was like heaven on earth, all those transformers" - cj

Re: singer with automatic tone control in her voice
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 07:15:25 PM »
well lucky I am not mixing it, just tracking it.  It does not sound bad at all, it all sounds natural to her voice.

Ohhh man you are right, but i just hate when i happen to be the guy mixing stuff like that HAHAHA


 

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