Norway attacks - Shocking!

As of 3 a.m. London time the BBC are reporting 80 people dead on Utoeya Island from the gunshots.  This was a youth camp so I assume most of the now dead were young people.  This is devastating beyond belief.

I think the dead are 7 from the earlier bomb in Oslo too...

:'(

Now at 85 people killed from the island and likely to rise...

It's really hard to imagine something like this happening... this is horror film stuff, truly terrifying. My thoughts go out to Norway tonight...

This is so sad...  :'(

Sorry to hear of this happening. My heart goes out to all who have suffered a loss. I can't help but think, whenever I hear of a situation like this, what would be the outcome if more of the general population were trained and allowed to carry weapons. Surely losses would be minimized.

It's very sad indeed. One of the most advanced, peacefull countries in the world. But more guns are not the solution to this problem. Not letting psychopaths have guns would be.

Here's a piece about Norway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA&feature=player_embedded#at=229

Our best wishes go out to the norwegian people.

JR

living sounds said:

It's very sad indeed. One of the most advanced, peacefull countries in the world. But more guns are not the solution to this problem. Not letting psychopaths have guns would be.

Here's a piece about Norway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA&feature=player_embedded#at=229

Click to expand...

Isn't it ironic that Michael Moores other noted piece is a film about the terror of guns in society!

Peace and respect to all and everybody. 

Unbelievable. Very sad.

It's a really sad situation, and I'm not looking to start a flame war, or make this a political argument...BUT I just have to point out that the reports I've read so far all say he was using an automatic weapon, which are banned from all civilians in norway...so no, nobody LET this maniac have it...he got it on the black market.

I just had to point that out...maybe for my own peace of mind.

I do not like guns myself but, in this case, it seems that laws would play little part in gaining access to them.

If a tortured soul seeks weapons for his own agenda, he will get them no matter if they are banned or not.  There are always people who will supply him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PKmkv64dc

Jean Clochet said:

I do not like guns myself but, in this case, it seems that laws would play little part in gaining access to them.

If a tortured soul seeks weapons for his own agenda, he will get them no matter if they are banned or not.  There are always people who will supply him.

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Agreed. It's still understandable that a non-gun educated person would simply see that a gun was used to kill, therefor tighten gun laws.

I'm still shocked by this whole thing. I thought the nutjob that shot U.S. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was unbelievable... This is a huge jump in the sadistic capabilities of human kind that the world did not need.

the attacks in Norway have been over shadowed by the news: death of Amy winehouse here in the U.S.A. sadly the death of a drug addict pop star is deemed more important by the news outlets.


MY heart and thoughts go out to the people of Norway

awful news.  so sad.

gemini86 said:

It's a really sad situation, and I'm not looking to start a flame war, or make this a political argument...BUT I just have to point out that the reports I've read so far all say he was using an automatic weapon, which are banned from all civilians in norway...so no, nobody LET this maniac have it...he got it on the black market.

Click to expand...

This is not correct, sorry. It is possible to get a licence for an automatic weapon in very special cases.
The norwegian killer had a licence for his half-automatic weapon for hunting roedeer.

Spiritworks said:

Sorry to hear of this happening. My heart goes out to all who have suffered a loss. I can't help but think, whenever I hear of a situation like this, what would be the outcome if more of the general population were trained and allowed to carry weapons. Surely losses would be minimized.

Click to expand...

If everyone carries a gun, wouldn´t the accidential shootings  greatly outnumber a single madman occasion like this?

It is human nature to try to understand such event through the logical lens of "how would a normal person act".  Unfortunately this individual seems to be a few bottles short of a six pack, so that does not apply.

it is also human nature, especially for engineers to try to understand how could we prevent that from ever happening again. I'm sure that will be studied by people almost as smart as this group.

It is an unfortunate tragedy, but now is time to be calm and honor the dead.

JR

Sredna said:

gemini86 said:

It's a really sad situation, and I'm not looking to start a flame war, or make this a political argument...BUT I just have to point out that the reports I've read so far all say he was using an automatic weapon, which are banned from all civilians in norway...so no, nobody LET this maniac have it...he got it on the black market.

Click to expand...

This is not correct, sorry. It is possible to get a licence for an automatic weapon in very special cases.
The norwegian killer had a licence for his half-automatic weapon for hunting roedeer.

Click to expand...

You mean Semi-Automatic? (doing some research) okay, I'll buy it...seems the media (of course) reported without knowing all the details and maybe made some assumptions... Some are saying now that he was using a semi-automatic  pistol and rifle. Wow, even easier to acquire, with or without a license. Now, after we completely ban guns from the law abiding population (people who don't break laws like stealing/buying illegal guns and murdering people with them), are we to trust the outlaws (people who don't obey the law, therefor laws don't apply to them) to NOT break the law and sell/buy guns illegally and NOT murder people or take advantage of a defenseless law-abiding people?

Sredna said:

Spiritworks said:

Sorry to hear of this happening. My heart goes out to all who have suffered a loss. I can't help but think, whenever I hear of a situation like this, what would be the outcome if more of the general population were trained and allowed to carry weapons. Surely losses would be minimized.

Click to expand...

If everyone carries a gun, wouldn´t the accidential shootings  greatly outnumber a single madman occasion like this?

Click to expand...

In my opinion, no. As spiritworks said; Ideally, these people would be trained and qualified to handle a gun, which means they'd know how to NOT ALLOW the gun to be pointed at something that they do not intend to shoot. This would drastically reduce such "accidents". I don't like the word accidental... It implies that nobody was at fault.

At the beginning of the year, the state of Arizona passed law that allows every citizen to not only carry a firearm, but conceal it at their will, no license needed. If you do a search, you'll find out exactly how many additional "accidental" shootings have occurred as a result of this...

Sorry for the off-topic rant, I promise I will say no more about my views on gun laws in countries I don't live in.

PS. Anyone else think Anne Curry's interview with an Utoya survivor was teetering between awkward and borderline inappropriate,  given what this poor girl had just been through?

It might be hard to comprehend in the US, where gun ownership is so widespread, that in the rest of the world where guns are a rarity, and shootings even rarer, nobody is clamouring for putting more guns in the public's hands. That would be like putting out a fire with gasoline.

Who really needs a gun in the 21st century in a civilised society? It's like owning a guillotine just in case you need to beheaded someone. How did a gun become socially acceptable and owning a guillotine or gallows not? In the UK at least, the reasoning is 'nobody has guns, why would I want one?' rather than 'Lots of people have guns, why shouldn't I have one?'

I would rather have guns in the hands of highly trained professionals ie armed police response units, than my neighbours, friends, enemies....han 'Lots of people have guns, why shouldn't I have one?'

I would rather have guns in the hands of highly trained professionals ie armed police response units, than my neighbours, friends, enemies....

""It might be hard to comprehend in the US, where gun ownership is so widespread, that in the rest of the world where guns are a rarity, and shootings even rarer, nobody is clamouring for putting more guns in the public's hands""

Perhaps this will change. These "mass shootings" seem to be occuring more frequently throughout the world, whether they are "terror-related" or not.
I would posit that what we call 21st century civilization is anything but civil. Admitedly, I am quite the pessimist with regards to human nature.
I would also submit that a well-trained Police force would not have stopped what occured in Norway unless a unit was stationed there alongside the campers. And even if, could they have prevented any shots from being fired?
It's a tough call - I am not condoning a return to the wild west.
I should also point out that I do not own any guns, nor do I foresee ever aquiring one for any reason. I have fired weapons at both indoor and outdoor ranges so I am aware of their "potential". I pray that there will never be a time where I regret not having one at my disposal.

More guns would only make the terrorist change their tactics. Like sniping from a hideout, using explosives, wearing protective clothing while going on the killing spree, using WMDs like gas or poisoning drinking water or whatever these kinds of minds think of. This incident will certainly shift the focus of police efforts in Europe more to non-islamist right-wing-extremists, and these efforts may hopefully prevent the next mass murder.

I heard about this incident while camping from one of my twitter addicted friends, but didn't get any details. My mind instantly went to "you know who" when I heard about a terrorist attack in Norway. When I got back to civilization, I was admittedly very surprised to learn about the identity of the attacker. Sign of the times I guess. An incredibly horrible act of violence from a single person who has lost their freakin mind. Apparently, he staged the attacks to stop Muslim immigration into Europe, and now he claims to be part of a cult that have been brainwashed to believe the same thing.

Gun laws wouldn't have made any difference here in my opinion. Whether they were harsher or looser. He may have been a completely stable regular guy when he got his license, and then fell off the deep end. Just reading through some more info, I read that the max sentence he can get is 21 years. That is something I think they should look at.