Jensen AN-002 App Note Transformer Question

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promixe said:
So to summarize: for THIS PARTICULAR application (i.e. into THAT15xx) it's best to use 1:1 transformers for proper mic loading.


Yes that's probably the way to do it unless you want to play with the 1K2's the chip spec shows.. 

Your source/load figures for pri in series & sec in // are correct: 1k3 and 216R. 


promixe said:
I wonder how Owel (FiveFish) does it with 1:8 Cinemag in his SC1-mk3 THAT1510-based pre...

I don't know, have you asked?  I quick guess: if you needed the extra 18dB from a 1:8 you could load the traffo with J-Fet buffers and the correct termination for traffo.  Then come out of the Fet sources with enough R build out to get about 200R to the chip.  It's messy and I wouldn't bother myself. 
 
Unless the amp is exceptionally marginal for noise, 4:1 variation in source impedance have little effect on noise. Even when cornered, 2:1 variation is small effect.

Unless the transformer is exceptionally lossy, the winding resistances are ~~5%-10% of nominal impedance and thus "hardly matter". (Nominal 2,430 winding 92 ohm loss, 4%; 5K winding 150 loss 3%.)

P48 Phantom was designed to have "very little" effect on nominal 100-300 ohm lines. (The 6K8 are in series to the signal, 13K across 200 is under 2%.)

Therefore when using transformers at nominal impedances, just go by turn-ratio, don't sweat the small errors.

> that gets me 229R then

That's what I get the long way. And the short-way does not work because we have 80 ohms driving a nominal 42K winding. That's artificial: the 80 ohms is a powerful amplifier and the 42K is super-light loading. In this case I'd double the secondary DC resistance: 180 ohms to the amp. That assumes both windings have similar losses and the line source vanishes in the haze.

OTOH, the line sees (short-way) 2430*4^= 37K4. They say 42K (I say 38K8), but what is the difference? If I consult noise-plots for amps, 37K or 42K are no-different.

> R9 & R10 can't be removed because they are biasing the input BJTs

If you have Center-tapped windings, both Phantom and bias may be moved to the CT and put no load on the signal. 3K4 to CT is a fairly common thing in older gear.

Dum-dum question: WHY are you going through a transformer into a diff-input amp? A great feature of transformers is that they WILL do the diff-unbal conversion for you, and in some ways better than a diff-amp.

The 1510 series is DESIGNED to work TRANSFORMERLESS. Is adding a transformer to it like putting a tube in a tubeless tire? (The tire will run hotter, you aint supposed to do that.) It sure is like not-using features you paid for.

And if you must do this: why do you need R36 -and- R9 R10? Select R9+R10 to give the suggested loading on the secondary. Check if this is low enough to satisfy bias current.

It seems the Carnhill VTB9045 suggests 5K loading? OK, but your R9 R10 add an additional 1K2+1K2 or 2K5 load. Total 1K7, MUCH less than Carnhill tole you to. Also an apparent 1K7/4= 417 ohm load to the mike, which is rather low.

To hit Carnhill's suggestion you want two 2K5 resistors, grounded at the center to supply amp bias current. But that is higher than THAT's suggestion for bias resistors.

> for THIS PARTICULAR application (i.e. into THAT15xx)

Yes. The 1510 series was made to look DIRECTLY at the mike. It runs high input-device (and bias) current to get low NF for 150 ohms, despite the pair-input topology. With a 2:1 transformer you really should cut 1510 input device current way down to optimize for 600 ohms (and have less bias current); but not possible. But with a transformer you would also like to switch to a single-ended input, one device, less cumulative noise. Now we've asked for two major hacks on a fine chip, we should look for another. Actually with 1:2 step-up, many standard chips (even diff-input but unbal out) such as 5532 will work fine. AND a buck cheaper, and possibly already in-stock in your factory or lab.
 
Sorry to bring this thread back up again, but I have two more questions regarding transformer calculations. This time it's the frequency response and level related.

I'm looking at Lundahl LL1528 and want to wire its primaries in series and secondaries in parallel for 1:1.25 ratio. If my load impedance is around 3k and source is 150R then this will be ideal for my application (Mic sees 2k15 and preamp sees pretty much 500R), but how do I calculate the transformer's frequency response with 3k secondary termination (two 1k5 bias resistors) in this configuration? The datasheet states "Optimum termination for best sq.wave response" with primaries in parallel and secondaries in series (1:5). Can I somehow derive my freq. response from this data or is the datasheet missing needed info?

Also, when primaries are connected in series do I get double input level from what's stated in the "Distortion" spec?

Thank you!

PS: PRR, thank you for the above post, a lot of great explanations as usual!
 
promixe said:
how do I calculate the transformer's frequency response with 3k secondary termination (two 1k5 bias resistors) in this configuration? The datasheet states "Optimum termination for best sq.wave response" with primaries in parallel and secondaries in series (1:5). Can I somehow derive my freq. response from this data or is the datasheet missing needed info?

Generally, the higher the step up, the less high end you get.  That Lundahl is already very good (0.3 db @ 40kHz)  so your response will be as good and maybe go a bit higher.  If you want to use a zobel, try the same 9K & 3nF.  Or you can look at the response and use a pot and various caps to find a new one.  It might not really need a network as you are using a 3k load now and this might flatten any peaking. 
Or let it ring a bit if it does?  I thought you wanted some character added to the sound?  Usually, none of the older (Neve era) input transformers used a zobel even though, technically, you could argue that they could use one. 
Try it and see. 

Yes, it'll be able to handle more input level for the same distortion figures.
 
> what up in the back woods?

Scraping the driveway.
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