Beesneez K7 capsule survey

Well, after 10 6 months of waiting, I finally found my M7 in the mailbox. No note, no invoice, no email, no nothing, but I guess I am now used to Ben's communication being limited to sending automated advertising emails...

I haven't heard the thing yet, and I'm wondering if I will, because:
1) the capsule is not properly mountable as it is
2) there's no way the 2 membranes could be matched, as one of them was obviously not assembled properly.

I understand that sh*t happens, and I usually do not post when I have nothing positive to say, but in this case, I believe it is not a question of bad luck, cause if you use the right tools the right way, some stuff just cannot happen...

Let's start the tour with the holder, As you can see in the following pictures, it is simply crooked, meaning the capsule will not sit where it should, and the membrane will not face the vertical axis of the mic. How hard is it to make a jig that keeps the parts straight in line while you glue them?



Now the membrane. It was very difficult to take a still of the problem, but on one side I can see small wrinkles near the centre screw. Very small, but it's obvious than the membrane is not perfectly flat as it should be. Look around the centre screw, between 5 and 6 o'clock, it is not a reflection or an optical effect...

Here's another pic I had a friend take with a macro lens. The darker line on the left side is the reflection of a straight veranda beam under which the picture was taken. Should the membrane had been flat, the beam reflection would appear straight.

I have checked carefully, and it is NOT a dust that could have been stuck between the washer and the membrane, which would have bent it the same way... Actually, the centre screw appears to be not perpendicular to the backplate where it's threaded in! The red arrow in the next picture shows the top of the centre screw that is several degrees off.


Was that hole hand drilled or what? Any decent CNC, or even drill press, is supposed to drill reasonably perpendicular holes, ain't it? Unless the operator forgot to clean the jig, and left some metal chips on it, offsetting the backplate.... Back to machining 101 then... And even if such a mistake happens, 10 seconds of simple visual inspection should have resulted in this particular capsule being rejected.

My conclusion is that there are flaws in the building method, and less than average quality control.When one pretends to build one of the best capsule in the world, that is not acceptable IMO.
Now, should I try the other side to hear if there's enough mojo to make it worth the trouble of sending the thing back and waiting another undetermined period of time to get a decent capsule? Is that only possible? Or should I just ask for a refund and be done with it?

Axel

Edited to fix the pictures links...
2nd edit: October<>July looks like 10 months. But to be fair, I placed my order at the very end of october, and the package says it has been posted early June, so I have waited my *** off for only 6 months.

can't see the pics mad.ax

EDIT: a link has now been visible, no prob.

I don't know about any other problems, but I didn't take a hard look at the second capsule yet until today, seeing this thread. And this is what I saw:





I'm not an expert, but the indentations on the right capsule (that are only on one side) is this okay or not??

I mean, I guess I will be using these mics mainly in cardio, so it doesn't really matter if the other side is good, but still, aren't these supposed to be the bee's knees?

Sorry (but not totally surprised) to see that I'm not the only one.
Dunno what happened to that membrane, maybe some moisture between the mylar and the gold layer? I'm not confident that it will age gracefully.

That's another example of poor QC. When you send 2 capsules to the same customer, how long does it take to see that one of them is so different looking that it must have some problem?

Axel

My capsule doesn't sit flat on the stand, picture doesn't show that much, but it looks like yours, saw that when i had it, and i have a small winkle on the membrane on one side as well, saw that as well..
And as you said maybe a color or volume difference in OMNI, well that's on me.
The Leg seems more straight than yours tough.
All in all mine looks "ok" compared to yours i guess....
I didn't tested the Capsule, yet, but i was a little "flipped out" at the same time, for if beeing one of the "damaged ones as well", can't think about that, got to stay positive...



The winkle makes the top of the Camera  difformed

i have to ask: on which recommodation did you all buy these capsules?

ioaudio said:

i have to ask: on which recommodation did you all buy these capsules?

Click to expand...

I was in the market for a pair of capsules, there was a group buy on prodigy-pro at 50% discount. I had very good experience with group buys on this forum, so I went for it. I believe it was initiated by Jim50hertz, but I wouldn't blame him at all.

ioaudio said:

i have to ask: on which recommodation did you all buy these capsules?

Click to expand...

Klaus Heyne gave Ben's capsules a good review, so that's why I decided to give it a try.  Of course, the group buy price was a factor as well.  I will pull my mic out later and have a good look at the capsule, but I don't remember seeing anything like the above or I would have contacted Ben to ask him about it.

UPDATE:  My capsule looks fine and works well. 

Cheers,
--
Don

ioaudio said:

i have to ask: on which recommodation did you all buy these capsules?

Click to expand...

First thing first : I do NOT blame anyone for recommending me this capsule! I am a grown up, I use the web in order to make as much as possible informed decisions, and I blame nobody but myself when I end up buying something that doesn't meet my expectations...

On top of that, I like to try new products. I guess it's part of the quest for the 'ultimate' whatever... I bought one of Dale's M7 when he was still making those, I tried both PVC and mylar M7 from Thiersch, and back then when I bought those, the 'recommendations' were almost the same...
I decided to give Mr Sneesby's products a try  on the same basis.

The group buy played a big part in my decision. There's no way I would risk 500 AU$ in a product that I never heard and had little rep. But 200 AU$ was affordable to me so I jumped in at the last minute...

That leads us to the root of your question Max. What did make me think that I should buy this capsule? Well, I must admit that it is that one single post from Klaus Heyne that praises Ben's work to a superlative level. I'd bet that everybody knows what post I'm talking about, but for reference, it's here: http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,1288.msg6580.html#msg6580

Now, I know that Klaus tested the K47-type, and what I ordered is a K7. But the K7 was made after that famous post, and was supposed to be Ben's best ever capsule. Quote from beesneezmicrophones.com "The BeesNeez K7 Capsule is our best capsule to-date. Through years of development we have come up with, what we think, one of the best capsules ever"

I do not blame Mr Heyne either. I'm willing to believe that the two specimens that Ben sent him were amazingly good.

And that's it. I have yet to read or hear one other person telling that he compared the K7 with a Thiersch or a Geffel, and that the Beesneez was better.

So. Should one single post, even written by a Web Star, be enough to warrant the success of a transaction? Of course not!
It was just too tempting to believe that I could get my hands on the same material than K.H., and for a bargain price at that! So I took the risk, waited 6 months, and so far am stuck with an unusable capsule...

Lesson learned!

Axel

Edit: Looks like I have been confusing € and AU$. I paid the groupbuy price which was 250 AUD.

hmm I am sad to see this because I was thinking of trying one of these in my AA mic.  But it seems maybe the puleso or the Chinese capsules Dave has been having specifically made for him may be better off.

I've had a mic with a wrinkled membrane and it definitely effected the sound in a negativity way.

I'm sorry to see this thread, but not surprised.  I hope you guys can get your money back or your capsules replaced.

I decided not to participate in this group buy for a few reasons.  For one, I suspected that such a huge group buy at such a deep discount was creating a risk, any seller willing to do that might put themselves in the position where inevitably they'll be pressured and motivated more by quick mass production and maintaining profit, than maintaining QC.  Etc.  Even with the best of intentions, it was putting the seller into a stressful situation...  Then they had the flood, and so on.  I'm not blaming anyone, just saying it was a recipe for potential problems. 

It's not a factory item, where more = cheaper, by just running the machines longer.  This is a hand-made product, it requires time and attention to get it right.  Therefore, shortening time and increasing production with less money creates the potential for issues.

I'm glad you have brought this up so these issues can be known. 

Anyway, I hope it works out and the seller comes through for you, or you guys can make the capsules work.

purchased this capsule after reading some good reveiws of beezkneez stuff and the great groupbuy price. i am away at the moment but befor leaving i just finished troubleshooting a G7 build with the BKNZ K7 capsule.  i have another G7 with the same electronics and a peluso ck12. different body and grille however.  when i return i can do  a comparison. after a short listen the beeskneez had a much more pronounced high end than my dale k47 capsule in ioaudios mk7 circuit,same mic body and grille. dont know how my k7 sits in the mic, didnt notice any problem with the membrane but if it sounds great its moot at this point. cant understand mr sneezbys poor business practices, it can only hurt his reputation in the long run. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Other side of my capsule has a wrinkle around the centre screw also. I've done one quick unscientific test and there seems to be slight diffrence in sound between the sides but nothing very dramatic. I'd rather have it without the wrinkle though.

That sucks. I was surprised I got my capsule pretty quickly since I signed up very late to the group buy. Mr Heyne's recommendation is what motivated me to buy it, too. My capsule arrived in fine condition and sounds great in the MK47 mic, although there isn't as much bass as I would expect. Will get my M7 back from reskinning eventually and do a comparison then. 
Sorry you guys have this much trouble, this clearly isn't how things should be.

@ Tommypiper
Thanks for your sympathy
I agree with you and I have considered those points before pulling the trigger. But IMO, the 'maintaining profit, rather than maintaining QC' politic is only valid for big companies. Harman for instance can play that game, but a boutique manufacturer can easily ruin his own rep... Therefore I thought that Ben was playing another card; Using our community to increase his reputation. A lot of us are working for, or have access to, big studios. If we tell studio owners that someone is making good capsules, and if we can demonstrate it by showing a working mic, that can only be beneficial to said someone's business... That's a two edged sword tho...
Ben used to be a member here, and that is part of why he could have made us waiting for 6 months. I am surprised by the choices he made...

Axel

Stuff happens, specially with manufacturing and growth.  Hopefully there will be a good resolution for you guys.  I hope so for everyone's sake. 

Hi There, You most likely know who i am (Ben Sneesby), let talk these through post by post.  Sit down and get comfy.

mad.ax said:

Well, after 10 6 months of waiting, I finally found my M7 in the mailbox. No note, no invoice, no email, no nothing, but I guess I am now used to Ben's communication being limited to sending automated advertising emails...

Click to expand...

We sent you and everybody else an invoice when you bought the capsule!  As far as a Note, what do you want me to say on it?  perhaps "hi friend, here is your capsule" ((like you didn't already know that if you had opened the package)).

I may be very busy and have to limit my emails but if you have a problem with the quality of the capsule, why would you post it here without first emailing me.

mad.ax said:

I haven't heard the thing yet, and I'm wondering if I will, because:
1) the capsule is not properly mountable as it is
2) there's no way the 2 membranes could be matched, as one of them was obviously not assembled properly.

I understand that sh*t happens, and I usually do not post when I have nothing positive to say, but in this case, I believe it is not a question of bad luck, cause if you use the right tools the right way, some stuff just cannot happen...

Click to expand...

I am not surprised that you haven't heard it yet, this post must have taken you so long to type; so long in fact that you havn't found the time to contact me direct!!!

1) the capsule is mountable, the slight rubber imperfection will cause no issues (but again if you contact me i will send another one)
2)When you are working with a fine screw into plastic, occasionally one may cross, this is easy to rectify, just back the screw out and re screw it, the thread will be fine as the acetal we use is very flexible.

mad.ax said:

Let's start the tour with the holder, As you can see in the following pictures, it is simply crooked, meaning the capsule will not sit where it should, and the membrane will not face the vertical axis of the mic. How hard is it to make a jig that keeps the parts straight in line while you glue them?

Click to expand...

Do me a favour, please start to make capsules the proper way so we can all buy them and the world will be a better place, your skills must be better than mine!!!

Now the membrane. It was very difficult to take a still of the problem, but on one side I can see small wrinkles near the centre screw. Very small, but it's obvious than the membrane is not perfectly flat as it should be. Look around the centre screw, between 5 and 6 o'clock, it is not a reflection or an optical effect...[/quote]

this is due to the screw not seating correctly, the fix is described above.  For this i do accept blame, i must have missed this one though it won't adversely affect the sound, granted it is ugly and i will fix it if you won't.


I have checked carefully, and it is NOT a dust that could have been stuck between the washer and the membrane, which would have bent it the same way... Actually, the centre screw appears to be not perpendicular to the backplate where it's threaded in! The red arrow in the next picture shows the top of the centre screw that is several degrees off.[/quote]

see above explanation.


Was that hole hand drilled or what? Any decent CNC, or even drill press, is supposed to drill reasonably perpendicular holes, ain't it? Unless the operator forgot to clean the jig, and left some metal chips on it, offsetting the backplate.... Back to machining 101 then... And even if such a mistake happens, 10 seconds of simple visual inspection should have resulted in this particular capsule being rejected.[/quote]

"Back to machining 101 then aye"

Please come and teach me, i'll even pay your airfares.

btw, our cnc's combined value is over 600k

mad.ax said:

My conclusion is that there are flaws in the building method, and less than average quality control.When one pretends to build one of the best capsule in the world, that is not acceptable IMO.
Now, should I try the other side to hear if there's enough mojo to make it worth the trouble of sending the thing back and waiting another undetermined period of time to get a decent capsule? Is that only possible? Or should I just ask for a refund and be done with it?

Axel

Click to expand...

Wow, way to go mate, slander me in an open forum and then wonder if you'll be able to get a refund!!!

spend a little less time bitching and more time listening and you'll be pleasantly surprised.........

We have had so far 8 capsules returned to us having holes in the diaphragms caused by the end user's, i have replaced these free even though the damage was not caused by us.  their capsules were sent out free within a week of their arrival here.  but you don't see me making a thread about that one do you!!!!!!!

baadc0de said:

I don't know about any other problems, but I didn't take a hard look at the second capsule yet until today, seeing this thread. And this is what I saw:


I'm not an expert, but the indentations on the right capsule (that are only on one side) is this okay or not??

I mean, I guess I will be using these mics mainly in cardio, so it doesn't really matter if the other side is good, but still, aren't these supposed to be the bee's knees?

Click to expand...

Hi there, i am very sorry for this, this is caused when there is a microscopic hol on the underside of the brass ring that screws the diaphragm down.  we apply glue to this surface but occasionally the glue may not perfectly seal the diaphragm which in normal circumstances is no problem but once the diaphragm is introduced to altitude, molecules of moisture can become trapped in there.  the decrease in pressure then causes the diaphragm to stick like you see.  i will of course replace this for you.

Please send it back i will fix it for you.  thanks

mad.ax said:

Sorry (but not totally surprised) to see that I'm not the only one.
Dunno what happened to that membrane, maybe some moisture between the mylar and the gold layer? I'm not confident that it will age gracefully.

That's another example of poor QC. When you send 2 capsules to the same customer, how long does it take to see that one of them is so different looking that it must have some problem?

Axel

Click to expand...

Another case of foot in mouth disease......  do you think we would be so stupid as to send it this way.  man your are a funny guy.....  see above post for explanation.

zayance said:

My capsule doesn't sit flat on the stand, picture doesn't show that much, but it looks like yours, saw that when i had it, and i have a small winkle on the membrane on one side as well, saw that as well..
And as you said maybe a color or volume difference in OMNI, well that's on me.
The Leg seems more straight than yours tough.
All in all mine looks "ok" compared to yours i guess....
I didn't tested the Capsule, yet, but i was a little "flipped out" at the same time, for if beeing one of the "damaged ones as well", can't think about that, got to stay positive...


The winkle makes the top of the Camera  difformed

Click to expand...

If you are not happy with it then send it back i will fix it for you rather then joining in the slaughter....