Vintage Collins 26U style chassis - any interest?

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tardishead

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
627
Location
Sussex, UK
I have discovered a fantastic machine shop near where I live in UK.
I am getting them to build some Collins 26U style chassis for my tube projects. These are 6U high and 4 inches deep with the front panel hinged - like Collins 26U or Gates Sta Level and many other limiters of the era. They will be made from either 1.5mm or 2mm mild steel sheet - yet to decide on this.
This is a feeler to see if any builders out there are interested in buying these kind of chassis.
Being so large they will be quite heavy so UK addresses would be most feasible.

I can also get STA LEVEL chassis made if there is enough interest



 
Seems it would be of interest to many.  You may have to do a proto before folks will bite.  Any chance they could be done in aluminum?
 
Difficulty of working, and rust.  All those old units were machined and treated in industrial environments, most DIY can't do proper rust protection easily. 

I'll take an earlier aluminum Gates SA-39 over a later steel one every day.  The steel ones almost all have rust, unless they came out of a low humidity environment.  Steel was always cheaper, and no one thought about very long life spans. 

For whatever it's worth. 
 
OK well I will inquire about aluminium. I guess its more expensive right?? Is 2mm ok?? I hate working with 3mm aluminium especially using greenlee chassis punches etc.
I personally prefer to work with steel - it seems to cut cleaner to me without messing around with drill speeds etc. I am no ace at metal work though.


 
2mm might be pushing it, but not able to take any measurements right now.  Maybe have a look at what some other chassis makers use for aluminum rack boxes and panels for comparison.  I think a lot of panels at least will be 3mm or 1/8".  Vintage panels tend to be 3/16" standard. 
 
Yes please Doug can you take some measurements of the SA39 for me.
So standard alu boxes which I have a lot of seem to have 3mm front panel and 1mm - 2mm sides back and top.
My aim is have a chassis that can hold a lot of iron and tubes but easily be machined.
 
Yeah, I'd say 3mm for the ears but 1.6 - 2mm would be fine for the rest of the case. Are you thinking of a folded U-section with separate top and bottom covers or a single folded box with hinged front panel?
 
> inquire about aluminium. I guess its more expensive right??

When you build a million, maybe a thousand, steel may be significantly cheaper. But very hard work unless the part is super-simple (building frame) or you set-up dedicated punches.

When you need a non-trivial shape/holes/bends, Aluminum can be MUCH cheaper for the first one or a dozen because it can be shaped by hand or small-power tools.

Al $1.10/lb
Steel $0.50/lb

In the same thickness, the price is not very different, because Al is a third the density of iron (or steel). Today, a foot of 1/8" stuff is cheaper in Al than in steel.

However in a direct pull, you can use thinner steel to get your strength.

However again, we don't direct-pull our gear, we accidentally bend it.

In bending, for a given material, twice as thick is FOUR times stronger. And 8 times stiffer. So even if Aluminum were half the strength of steel (a very fuzzy area), twice the thickness of Al will be as strong as steel (and stiffer).

How much stuff can be in this box? 5 pounds of steel? $2.50? Surely the bending and work will be 20 times more expensive on a small run. Twice as thick Aluminum would be 2/3rd the weight, 3 pounds, $3.30. And the working will be the same or cheaper in a real metal shop (same number of operations, but each operation is easier and less wear on the drill). And Al is much less intimidating to the average DIY worker: it cuts with wood-work tools.

Basically when you can get the cost of the work down below the cost of the material, then you worry about material cost. If you make a million cars, with a panel like a 26U, you spend a month cutting ONE stamper to blank the 17"x8" outline, the top/bottom lips, the holes, all in one blow. Then you WHANK WHANK WHANK WHANK 3,000 per hour, instead of 3/hour using general shop-work. In a few hours your expensive stamper has paid for itself, and the per-part cost comes down to the raw metal cost. Knowing this, you re-design the shape with more ribs to use thinner steel instead of thick aluminum.

Note that nearly all car-engines have switched to aluminum. Partly because weight matters in a car. But also because a hi-revving engine needs a stiff structure. At the same weight Al can be 3X thicker and _9X_ stiffer. Or for the same cost (today's price), 1.5X thicker and 2.2X stiffer (and half the dead weight). (Also because even with costly tooling, it is hard to get intricate shapes in iron, easier in alloy. Ford bought Lincoln because Lincoln was about to cast a Vee engine near as cheap as a straight. Nearly all aftermarket Chevy heads are alloy because only one non-Detroit company has mastered the trick of casting ports and jackets in iron.)
 
Yep PRR I hear ya. Thing is I am not trying to reinvent the wheel in fact probably the opposite.
This thread has become way more complicated than what I intended.

Just to make it clear the cases will be 2 piece and a hinge. ie a folded box, welded at the side seams with a piano hinge front panel. I have never seen any for sale anywhere.
There are loads of manufacturers out there making really good aly boxes and most will do a custom 6u or 8u high case for you. What I wanted is a steel case like the old ones with a front hinged panel because most of my projects are P2P tube stuff and these are fantastic for just this purpose. So easy to trouble shoot and you can change components and presets inside the chassis without taking it out of the rack.

I bought 3 of these type of cases from KID SQUID a few years ago and I love them. Sure you have to prime and spray (which I enjoy doing although I know most DIYers dont want to bother with that - you can get enamel spray cans in all of those fantastic vintage BS colours) but not one of them has any rust. Sure if they are going to sit in a leaky warehouse for 10 years they will rust but in studios I dont think there is anything to worry about. When I build DIY gear I like it to have a similar look and feel to my vintage units.
I see SQUID is making some new cases
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=42683.40
And I see he too is reluctantly looking at aluminium because so many have asked for it. I dont want to step on his toes and I think he has completely got it covered.

So anyway I did ask about the aluminum and it will be more money and more work. Welding the sides in aly is expensive. To do in aly will mean a completely different design - eg. overlapped and riveted. Which takes me back to the first point - if you guys want aly you should just customise something that is already out there.

So just to make it clear - I dont want to go into mass production - I am getting some of these made up for myself and was just offering the community the chance to grab some if they fancied it. I agree it would be better in aluminium but I dont have the time or money to look into manufacturing these. I just wanted some quick, tough and functional old style cases. I will get some made up for myself and post some pictures. Sorry that I could not provide the ultimate solution.
 

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