Getting a good frequency response from a Edcor xs1100?

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ChrioN

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Aug 31, 2005
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Are these transformers purely crap?
Big low end roll-off at 1k, and it seems that it doesn't matter how it is used.
Primary 2+2 in parallel and secondary 1+1 in series makes for a 2:2 or 1:1 transformer that doesn't work very good.
Any advice?
 
what circuit? using a coupling cap? (what value?).

They have a stated frequency response of 10~50K Hz., <1dBu.  I've heard some good things about them so i can't help but think there's something wrong....

greetings,

Thomas
 
if you put the primaries in parallel, you are only getting one primary worth of inductance, which may be fairly low.  this might work fine when driven by a beefy output stage with a very low output impedance, but if your circuit can't supply enough current to drive the load, the low end will certainly sag.  fixes would be:

1) check that you are not excessively loading the transformer.  do you have a resistor across the primary or secondary?  if so raise the value or remove it.  or are you connecting equipment with a 600ohm input impedance?  if so, well, don't do that or see further recommendations below.

2) use the transformer with primaries in series as a 2:1 step down, and increase the gain in your circuit (preferably not in the part that drives the transformer) to compensate for the 6dB step down

3) lower the output impedance of your transformer driving circuit.  no idea what your circuit looks like, but if you have a resistor in series with the output, reduce or remove it.  if you are using a circuit with low current drive, add a buffer stage or replace it with one that can drive a transformer.

4) try a different transformer.  if the same thing happens with a 2503 or neve output, then the problem is your circuit is not well matched to this kind of output transformer, and you may need to change your circuit and/or choose a different transformer with a higher primary inductance.

there may be other options, but without knowing anything about your circuit, it is hard to say.  it is also possible that the transformer that you have is defective, but i would guess that it is more an application problem.

ed
 
Measure inductance if possible.  See if numbers look reasonable for stated response. 
 
Connect the dots:

XS1100.png


It looks like they terminated one winding differently than the others (dot on higher numbered pin.
 
probably a (flawed) attempt to ape the pinout of the lundahl ll5402 part that this edcor is nominally a substitute for...

http://lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/5402.pdf

PRR is right that you should double check the pinout, make sure the pins you're using are actually connected to the windings and that they're properly in phase.  i would think that hooking the transformer up out of phase would get you more cancellation than just a bass droop, but you never know until you try.

ed
 
Right. I've tried different ratios.

Right now, the primary is connected in series, so is the secondary. This makes for a 4:2 ratio, or 2:1.

When connecting the primary in series, I get 10 H between pin 2 and 5 (pin 1 and 4 linked). This is at 1khz. At 100hz: 24 H.
Still getting a nice highpass filter at 1khz.

It is used as an input transformer in a API 312 type of circuit. A 22k resistor to ground on the input.

http://www.jefflaity.com/albums/micpre/api312.gif
 
Are you sure its the right application you using it??
i mean i would use it in something like a pultec or whatever.

;)
 
2520's and low ratio transformers don't mix too well, maybe try a 990 and see if you have better luck?
 
3nity said:
Are you sure its the right application you using it??
i mean i would use it in something like a pultec or whatever.

;)

As far as I know the lundahl equivalent is used in simular line opamp based circuits.

Still, it feels like the problem isn't the transformer. Hm. I'll hook it up backwards just for the sake of it and see what happens.

Thanks for the tip mitsos.
 
the xs1100 is intended as a sub for the lundahl ll5402.  the ll5402 is an output transformer, not an ideal choice as an input transformer, and i would guess that is true for the xs1100.  not to say that that it couldn't work, just that there might be better choices.

still not clear if you are using the xs1100 as a mic input (api 312 is a mic preamp, maybe you meant 325?) or a line input?

also not sure if you've checked the phasing and made sure that the xs1100 is hooked up correctly...

ed
 
Cool!

I thought I'd make a try anyways.. I'm using it as a line amp. 312-ish.
I always triple checking phasing and hookup.
I remember having the exact same problem with some other transformer some years ago. Actually, I think it was a lundahl.

Wrong application doesn't always mean wrong application, but sometimes things ain't matching up.
There might be a "ain't matching up" type of problem here. I'll see what I can find in the edcor-bin.
I have atleast a couple of 600:600 inputs. Will give those a go tomorrow.

Inductors are so much simpler  ;D

Thanks for pointing this out 3nity, thanks to Mr. Ed as well.

edanderson said:
the xs1100 is intended as a sub for the lundahl ll5402.  the ll5402 is an output transformer, not an ideal choice as an input transformer, and i would guess that is true for the xs1100.  not to say that that it couldn't work, just that there might be better choices.

still not clear if you are using the xs1100 as a mic input (api 312 is a mic preamp, maybe you meant 325?) or a line input?

also not sure if you've checked the phasing and made sure that the xs1100 is hooked up correctly...

ed
 
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