manulaudic

U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« on: November 09, 2011, 06:47:59 AM »
Hello !!

I have this T-bone SCT2000 Tube microphone and i would like to modify it and get a u47 clone or so.
This thread is so that we can all contribute to what Capsule to choose along with Modifying the circuit and Transformer.

I've already upgraded the tube for a JJ EC881 or 12at7.

On a french forum i also found those mods :

Change C4 ->  Styroflex 1000pF 630V
Change C3 & C5 -> polypropylene 22 nF 1000V (Arcotronics 1000V 0.022uF)
Change  C7 C10 C9 -> 100 nF 100V MKP2 Wima
Change C8 -> polypropylene metallise SCR PB100 1uF 400V

I believe this T-bone is also seen with Apex, Nady or other chinese copies.

Here are the pictures of my microphone :







Thank you for Helping and make this mod Happen !


Gus

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 06:57:28 AM »
You want free design work from this forum?

Read the threads at this forum a lot has been posted over the years about the questions you are asking.

Look for the MK47 threads the MK7 threads u47 threads etc.

manulaudic

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 07:00:29 AM »
I've read the forums, i was just thinking i could mod this mic real time and post pictures.

I guess, i can rely on one MK47 mod and try it out. !

Do you recommend a specific Capsule?

KrIVIUM2323

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 07:20:32 AM »
For capsule M7 or K47 copy?

Many to choose from... Which one is the best? The best for what? Every copy is different and coupling with headbasket acoustic for 'that 47' sound is not negligible. And STC is not the same as a 47ish headbasket (as well as mic body and some  resonance from it) so you would probably not beeing in that kind of '47' sound

Transformer is imho important too, as biasing method.

Well, better than a '47 copy' why not try to make a good mic with his own character with what you've got?

By the way Gus gave many many infos about mic design and build over years... He's really an 'expert' in the domain. Maybe a search about his previous post could be relevant.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:23:52 AM by KrIVIUM2323 »

Hank Dussen

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 08:40:22 AM »
Thiersch are absolutely top notch!http://www.thiersch-mic.de/en/estm_produkte.html

KrIVIUM2323

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 09:11:37 AM »
Or Beezneez K7 or K47, Dale M7(Chucks batch currently in White market), Equinox 47, ADK, Violet design,... or an original Neumann K47... Probably many other to choose from!

manulaudic

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 09:23:20 AM »
KrIVIUM2323 You are right !

I forget the idea of trying to get a U47 clone. I would need to start from scratch and get good Mic case and all. I actually found on the black market different sellers for Both Mic Body and Mic PCB etc...

Though i am trying to get this mic for Vocal purposes, i would like to get rid of the Harsh High-end and have a more flaten response.

Is there any components i should upgrade on the PCB?

Here is a link to my music, that kind of style, pretty Fresh ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otoWoq_5gBY
By the way Vocals were done with SCT2000 -> Mbox2pro. Pretty Basic and Ok for a first Song, Not clear enough in my opinion for our futur projects..

I will take a look at Gus previous post and find what could work.
Thank you all.


mich

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 10:07:00 AM »
its been mentioned many times - and its true : the capsule will determine mostly the sound of the mic (i would say 75-80%) and the rest - the circuit,the body,component choices.
so dont wait for a BIG change replacing capacitors...
"Tubes gone - darkness,darkness,darkness no colour ,no contrast." - Joni Mitchell

KrIVIUM2323

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »
Manu,
great song!

OT: I like the way your voices blends together, maybe sometime you're a bit upfront vs Eva for my taste. Well this record is not so bad. For your future project i think you'll be in major studios in Paris (Taratata will bring you to light i'm sure!) or elsewhere with massive amount of gear and mics to choose from...  8) 

But for your preprod work i'll be ok to mod your mic for something better it's sure. I'm sure a  change in capsule for a more serious one will bring your mic to next level. Second eventually change the capacitors as you mentionned earlier. Last but not least the out transformer for one dedicated to ECC81 (Marik of Samar audio have some for this purpose, check White market).

But overall it will cost money (and time) and probably as many as if you decided to go for a commercialy availlable one... But less fun to go to store and plug and play than to mod one.  ::)   :)

manulaudic

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 10:28:51 AM »
Thank you !

I'm happy you took a listen, we are coming up with an album soon, got to sing in a real u47 for the record, that's nice ! It's true my voice is a bit too upfront. It's good to hear feedback, thanks.
Though i love DIY, it's like a passion. It's good to be able to relax.

Anyway, i think i will then upgrade the Capsule and will see what happen.


Manu


KrIVIUM2323

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 10:45:11 AM »
Manu last few things about mix/mastering,
 on my laptop there's some distorded peaks all along the songs (need to bring back volume on Youtub player) and overall i feel the song to be a little bit overcompressed. Don't be obsessed with subjective volume, your style of songs need some dynamics and 'breath'. Yours voices/music will bring listener 'captive' no need for high average volume in the style you do, i think.

About capsule change be aware that some kind of capsule need de-emphasis (K87/K67) as they brings highs foreward (inherently/ by design). If you change capsule for M7/K47 type and your mic had 87/67 capsule without modifying circuit you will end up with dull sound.

You'll probably have to reverse enginneer the circuit to be sure.   

Moby

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 07:50:53 AM »
its been mentioned many times - and its true : the capsule will determine mostly the sound of the mic (i would say 75-80%) and the rest - the circuit,the body,component choices.
so dont wait for a BIG change replacing capacitors...
Making U47 clone and ignoring capsule-headgrill effect is just making Chinese microphone to sound different from stock. As I mentioned under U47 body thread I'm working on such a details for more than 6 months. So, my advice is not to bother with wrong designed head-grills . You can see the measuring results with correct mesh size. Wrong dimensions (most of U47 body clones) looks and sounds quite different.
For microphone transformers,  BV.8,  Bv.11,  Bv.12, etc.. contact me at mobyelectronics at gmail dot com

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 03:08:58 AM »
Hi Moby,
Accordingly your graph the grill changes freq.response up to 13dB. It is not true.
Compare M7 capsule FR for U47 and CMV563(lollipop).

Moby

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 07:35:49 AM »
Hi Moby,
Accordingly your graph the grill changes freq.response up to 13dB. It is not true.
Compare M7 capsule FR for U47 and CMV563(lollipop).
No, take a better look. Measuring is not normalized. So, difference is +2 /-6 db. And yes, it's like this, with wrong mesh sizes (3 layer mesh) acoustics coloration is different.
Cheers
For microphone transformers,  BV.8,  Bv.11,  Bv.12, etc.. contact me at mobyelectronics at gmail dot com

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 03:31:39 AM »
Yep, my fault - grid is 1dB.
Anyway, 8db difference is too much. How did you measured?
Regards, Vladimir.

Moby

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 07:59:09 AM »
Yep, my fault - grid is 1dB.
Anyway, 8db difference is too much. How did you measured?
Regards, Vladimir.
Well, too much but that's the reason why I chime about it. I measured with calibrated microphone in omni mode , so all sides of basket are included. Software used is Fuzzmeasure.
For microphone transformers,  BV.8,  Bv.11,  Bv.12, etc.. contact me at mobyelectronics at gmail dot com

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 02:40:10 PM »
http://mixguides.com/microphones/vintage_products/audio_vintage_microphones_part/

Here's a same kind of graph by late guru Stephen Paul. Hard to read but seems like the bumps and dips are not as deep and in different places, but there's a strong resemblance. Differences could easily be explained by cardioid vs. omni, and/or a measurement mic vs. a K47 capsule + holder in the head basket.

Moby

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 07:18:59 PM »
This measuring looks like heavy smoothed. Something like1/3 oct (mine is 48/oct) . BTW, point was not to show capsule response but response of head basket with correct mesh size. When I finish my investigation expect new thread about it. Especially about BV8 :)
For microphone transformers,  BV.8,  Bv.11,  Bv.12, etc.. contact me at mobyelectronics at gmail dot com

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 04:54:09 AM »
When I finish my investigation expect new thread about it. Especially about BV8 :)
Hi Moby,
Such thread will be appreciated!
Good luck.

Moby

Re: U47 Clone Build Thread based on T-bone sct2000
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 07:01:03 AM »
When I finish my investigation expect new thread about it. Especially about BV8 :)
Hi Moby,
Such thread will be appreciated!
Good luck.
Yes Sir :)
For microphone transformers,  BV.8,  Bv.11,  Bv.12, etc.. contact me at mobyelectronics at gmail dot com


 

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