Brian Roth

Iran...../germany WWII
« on: November 24, 2011, 08:50:56 PM »
Brian Roth Technical Services
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3nity

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 01:05:51 PM »
Quote
Walt was f**ked

Whats it got to do with Iran?
Life is a path, death the destination.

JohnRoberts

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 03:14:57 PM »
Fair question... there is an obscure connection between the bathist party that used to run Iraq, before the toppling of saddam, and nazi philosophy, but these days the bathist are more likely to be associated with Syria.

The disney cartoon seem consistent with anti german/ anti nazi sentiment during wartime. 

JR

edit- Iraq, not iran... duh... /edit
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 11:53:51 AM by JohnRoberts »
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

VacuumVoodoo

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 09:49:28 AM »
Iran, Iraq...Sadam, Ahmadinedjad...same difference, right?
Alex Niemand
_____________________________________
Life's a party but you get invited only once...
Tubewonder amps
"L

JohnRoberts

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 10:16:49 AM »
Well they would both disagree with any suggestion they are (were) the same. While both countries were majority shia population Iraq was run by the minority sunnis.

Iraq was a military dictatorship that pretended to have democratic elections, and Iran is an islamic theocracy, that pretends to have democratic elections. Arguably Ahmadinejad is just the public face fronting for the clerics really in power.

  Both were disruptive to stability in the region, while only one is still making trouble for it's neighbors (discounting Kurdish tension with Turkey). Iraq is now arguably a model for a better path, not without bumps in the road ahead as the Shia, Sunni, and Kurds remain distrustful of power sharing. 

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 01:05:34 PM »
This was an anti Nazi video put out in 1943. I don't see the Iran connection, though.

Sredna

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 08:42:21 PM »
Hmm... in which direction do the electrons actually go?

Brian Roth

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 01:49:35 AM »
Iran<->Aryan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

That was kinda of the odd linkage that came into my weird brain, along with the "exterminate the Jewish people" attitude, and the warmongering.  The WWII propaganda cartoon also made me think of the mindless 'followers' in both countries. 

Fortunately, Iran doesn't have the war manufacturing industry that German had, but then again, nukes in the hands of Iran sort of reduces the need for factories cranking out tanks, guns, etc.

Indeed, my connection between the two is a bit of a stretch, but the world also downplayed German power prior to WWII.

Best,

Bri (who would prefer to Make Love, Not War <g>)
Brian Roth Technical Services
Salina Kansas, home of the best vinyl on the planet!

http://www.BrianRoth.com
recordingservicesandsupply.com/
www.qualityrecordpressings.com/
store.acousticsounds.com

JohnRoberts

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 12:04:11 PM »
Iran is pedaling as hard as they can to build up their military power, and the leadership would like nothing more than to disappear Israel, as they have openly stated.

While they may not be a german scale war machine, they surreptitiously supply many of the IEDs and tools of disruption used by the sundry insurgencies in countries around them they wish to dominate.   

I find it unthinkable that the world would allow them to get a nuclear device, but so far only Israel seems serious about really stopping them, and this is more out of self preservation.

I don't think we can just ignore this and expect it to go away, but "talking" to them seems pretty pointless. There was just a new round of sanctions imposed, but not all countries honor the sanctions.

Of course opinions vary, but this seems clear cut.

JR

edit- well it looks like euro zone is considering not buying Iranian oil...  While oil is what economist like to call a fungible asset, which means somebody else will buy it, freeing up other oil, that the euro zone will then buy. So the net effect of this is probably slightly more expensive gasoline for Europe, slightly cheaper for somebody else, and perhaps a little less money for Iran, but somebody will buy it. I support any pressure applied on Iran, however marginal in effect. /edit
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 03:49:54 PM by JohnRoberts »
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2011, 05:20:12 PM »
Have you guys considered that fact that the US media and military industrial complex have a vested interest in keeping us at war?

I don't mean this in a conspiratorial way, either. Take GE (owner of NBC) for example. General Electric designed, manufactured or supplied parts or maintenance for nearly every major weapon system used by the U.S. during the Gulf War—including the Patriot and Tomahawk Cruise missiles, the Stealth bomber, the B-52 bomber, the AWACS plane, and the NAVSTAR spy satellite system.

In my opinion, we need to get out of the middle east entirely, because our policies there are short sighted. This excerpt explains blowback:

"As described in a 1987 PBS documentary, when the democratically-elected prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mossadegh, decided to nationalize his country's oil supply in 1953, the CIA secretly orchestrated his overthrow and installed the shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. Under the shah, U.S. oil companies took over half of Iran's production. The shah was also a ruthless dictator, who through his secret police, tortured and murdered thousands of his own people. These atrocities took place with the full support of the United States.

Chanting "death to the American Satan" in 1979, the Iranian people overthrew the shah, empowering a new dictator, the Ayatollah Khomeini. Most Americans of a certain age can remember well the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979, in which Iranians held dozens of U.S. citizens hostage for 444 days. What most probably didn't realize was that the hostage crisis was provoked by decades of U.S. intervention. It was caused by "blowback."


Although I am not excited about the possibility of Iran obtaining a nuke, the thought that they (a country that cannot even process its own oil, without a real Navy and no intercontinental ballistic missiles) could launch a successful attack against the US is laughable.


JohnRoberts

Re: Iran...../germany WWII
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 06:45:15 PM »
Have you guys considered that fact that the US media and military industrial complex have a vested interest in keeping us at war?
No I never considered that about the mainstream media that seems rather anti-war and left of center.  Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex and that is no doubt still an issue with many in congress complicit regarding jobs and other perks that all the military spending buys them in their home districts. 

There's one senator from alabama who very cleverly has prevented shutting down an obsolete military weapons program that happens to be built in his district, with a clause that it cannot be defunded until the administration passes an actual budget. So we taxpayers have been funding an obsolete weapon program for years now because the administration can't man up and pass a real budget, like every administration is supposed to do. 

This is a little like the for profit prisons having an interest in more crime.
Quote
I don't mean this in a conspiratorial way, either. Take GE (owner of NBC) for example.

Well GE sold NBC to Comcast some time ago so GE is no longer calling the shots there editorially. 
Quote
General Electric designed, manufactured or supplied parts or maintenance for nearly every major weapon system used by the U.S. during the Gulf War—including the Patriot and Tomahawk Cruise missiles, the Stealth bomber, the B-52 bomber, the AWACS plane, and the NAVSTAR spy satellite system.
GE makes a lot of all kinds of stuff, lots of it in China these days. they even make a lot of that green energy stuff (windmill turbines etc).
Quote
In my opinion, we need to get out of the middle east entirely, because our policies there are short sighted. This excerpt explains blowback:
Our international policy has always been a mix of short term self interest (like when we went after the Barbary pirates), and more long sighted promotion of democracy. Free trade is actually instrumental in world peace as people are less likely to start wars against trading partners.
Quote
"As described in a 1987 PBS documentary, when the democratically-elected prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mossadegh, decided to nationalize his country's oil supply in 1953, the CIA secretly orchestrated his overthrow and installed the shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. Under the shah, U.S. oil companies took over half of Iran's production. The shah was also a ruthless dictator, who through his secret police, tortured and murdered thousands of his own people. These atrocities took place with the full support of the United States.

Chanting "death to the American Satan" in 1979, the Iranian people overthrew the shah, empowering a new dictator, the Ayatollah Khomeini. Most Americans of a certain age can remember well the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979, in which Iranians held dozens of U.S. citizens hostage for 444 days. What most probably didn't realize was that the hostage crisis was provoked by decades of U.S. intervention. It was caused by "blowback."

Yes I recall the hostage crisis, and the Shah before the '79 revolution. Also how Carter mounted a failed hostage rescue attempt (what is it about helicopters and the middle east?), on top of his other ineffective policies. I also recall how the hostages were quickly released when Reagan was elected. This wasn't because Reagan was perceived as a nicer guy than Jimmy Carter.   
Quote
Although I am not excited about the possibility of Iran obtaining a nuke, the thought that they (a country that cannot even process its own oil, without a real Navy and no intercontinental ballistic missiles) could launch a successful attack against the US is laughable.

Indeed and nobody is suggesting that. If anything we were developing a missile shield to help protect Southern Europe, While strangely Russia objected to the missile defense shield pointed away from them. But not to worry our fearless leader demurred so they were made happy, while Putin is starting to saber rattle again in anticipation of his next run for office (again).

Iran is routinely bragging and making claims about being able to reach Tel Aviv with missiles (not so sure they could), but that's their primary focus right now. Today Ahmadinejad is making noise about targeting a nato radar facility in Turkey if Israel bombs their nuclear weapons program back to the stone age like they did a few times before in other nearby neighbors weapons programs.

But you are correct, they can't reach the US. So why should we worry..? 

What would happen to Israel if we abandoned them?  This would make many in the middle east happy and perhaps result in another holocaust while Ahmadinejad claims the first one never happened. I guess he want's to be first. I wouldn't underestimate Israel though. they have demonstrated that they can fight effectively. While they could get slaughtered again without support from the west.

For those not paying attention to events in the middle East, things are getting dicey with Pakistan lately, and they already have nukes. Speaking of military industrial complex, their main economy had been pretending to help us chase terrorists, while they secretly sheltered OBL in the middle of their military academy town, and their intelligence agency (ISI) has always worked both sides of the street and the middle, but now since we killed their cash cow and revealed the poorly concealed lie, things have degenerated even more. Recently there was a "friendly" fire event in the border region with the term friendly perhaps inappropriate. Nato forces returned fire on Pakistan military that claimed they were fired on first unprovoked, whoever started it about two dozen dead pakistani army regulars was the result. I suspect Pakistan will be less stable if they get weaned off our military aid teat and onto somebody else's.  While many applauded the free election that replaced Gen Mushareff a few years ago, I'm not so sure this will end well at the rate we're going. The Pakistani citizens don't care for all our drone attacks on pakistani soil. Talk about blow back, this remote control warfare is not making many new friends. The way it has been expanded into several countries in the region makes me a little uncomfortable.   

That is a pleasant thought that Iran can't reach us with a nuke, but that isn't the point...Iran could just about reach tel Aviv on the back of a Camel, while their technology is probably not that light weight.  Bad actors should not be tolerated anywhere. Even the middle east deserves free choice and rule of law.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


 

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