I Want To Build A Modular Console.

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heffree

Active member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
30
This first little bit here is just some background. If you'd like to get right to the point of this post, feel free to skip down to the next paragraph.
After spending the better part of this week visiting my friend in Minnesota and spending a bunch of time over at his school, the Institute of Production and Recording, I have decided that I need a console.
I got to spend a few hours in studio 2 messing around with their SSL 4040 console and various outboard compressors and EQs. I also had the chance to record live, with a band, to tape on a 24 track Studer. Something I never thought I'd get to do any time soon. Until then I had only worked ITB and I was amazed at the difference in sound. I love it. It took me a whole 2 minutes to get a snare drum sounding kinda sorta similar to what probably 15 minutes of tweaking with plugins would get me. I have never been that satisfied with the sound of a drum. I can't even really describe the sound. It was just.. exactly how I wanted it. All the gear responded exactly how I thought it should. I come from the world of guitar where I can sit in front of my amp and mess around with PHYSICAL knobs and buttons to get my sound. Not a mouse and keyboard. A console just feels right to me.

So, on to my point.
I need to have that sound/feel at home. It would also be great if I could experience the joy of building it myself.

This is my idea:
I would like to make a modular console that would basically work the same as all the 500 series stuff, except not entirely. I want the dynamics and EQ section to be bigger. More spread out. I got to play around with a few 500 series comps at the school and I hated how small and close together all the knobs are. Same goes for the EQs. I would still like to use the same card edge connectors, only with bigger PCBs and faceplates for those sections. A way to switch the EQ and dynamics section around without having to physically take them out and switch them would also be sweet.
As far as the preamp sections, I would prefer to do those in 200 series format.
Aside from the preamp, EQ, and dynamics the rest of it would be laid out like your average console. Faders at the bottom with mute and solo buttons, pan knobs, auxilary sends, a few busses, and probably a mix buss compressor (gssl? why not).
In total I would probably start out with 8-10 channels and 4 busses with the option to expand later on.
On top of all this, I'd like to be able to connect it to my HD I/O via DB25

I'm aware this isn't a terribly specific description of what I want. Truth is, my knowledge of electronics is pretty minimal. However, I'm not asking any of you to design anything for me. I simply have two questions (and maybe a couple follow up questions, depending on the answers it get):
1. Has anything with all these features already been done?
2. If not, is this at all plausible? Forget the amount of time it'll take a noob such as myself to actually design, build, and assemble something like this. Time is not important to me. I have a job making a decent amount of money where I have A LOT of free time and I'm not in a huge hurry to have it done.
 
I should probably clarify that I DO NOT plan to design my own EQs or compressors. I would merely take one that already exists and adapt it the size and application I want.
 
heffree said:
2. If not, is this at all plausible? Forget the amount of time it'll take a noob such as myself to actually design, build, and assemble something like this. Time is not important to me. I have a job making a decent amount of money where I have A LOT of free time and I'm not in a huge hurry to have it done.

I don't have time to write a proper post but in short no it's not plausible. Nothing is impossible but it takes a huge design and fabricating skillset to pull something like this off. Massive.

Jeff Steiger is a member here and he's been working on a modular console for years now.  It will eventually be available to the public when it is ready. 

I'm pretty sure if you have to ask then this is beyond you.  Sorry to rain on the parade but you did ask.  Someone does at least once a year and they often vow to take on the challenge never to post again.  I thought I could do something like this when I came here first and 6 odd years of study later I'm no closer.

 
It is possible .. but not too plausible.

You would need ALOT of skills in electronics, pcb fabrication, wiring, power supply and distribution etc

not to mention strong metal working skills, access to equipment and so on

AND a whole lota time and even more cash!

But, like building Rome, not impossible.

Some brave, cashed up and skilled persons have done it.

I think the job would be daunting enough even with jeff's (of Classic API) products and existing 500 series modules.
And very expensive indeed!

On the other hand, isn;t life just a little too short for this?
Plenty of other paths to what you want.

Good luck with it tho'.
 
gemini86 said:
I'd wait to see how Jeff's modular console project turns out. He's been working at it for a while...

I have come across that thread while lurking here for the past little while. I've definitely been following it a bit and will continue to do so.

I realize that this would take A LOT of work. Especially since I still have a ton of stuff to learn before I could even start figuring out how to put something like this together.
However, I think I may have an advantage on the financial side that some others that have attempted this might not have had.
My dad has been a teacher at the local tech college here for about 6 years and I've come to personally know the head of the electronics department, and the head of the metalwork/cnc machining department, both of whom have expressed willingness to help me with any projects I might come up with. All of the metalwork can be done (very professionally I might add) for the cost of the materials, even free for some things, through the school. The same goes for the actual fabrication of PCBs.

My original post may have made this seem a bit more urgent than it actually is. It's just been on my mind since visiting my friend and I've been really enthralled with the idea of making a console. It's much more likely that I will be buying/building other outboard gear to satisfy my hardware hunger for the next year or two until I decide to either buy a small console, or go ahead with the idea of making my own.
 
Where do I start.....first off, whatever I say here is only meant to be construction. If it comes off as mean or condescending, that is not my intention at all.

Here is an example of a typical email that I get once every 2 weeks or so. Maybe 40-50+ over the last couple of years.

"Jeff, quick question if you have a few minutes. I have been looking at your summing cards and want to build a console. Something simple with a fader, pan and maybe a few sends. A couple of buses would be nice too. Do I buffer the faders and sends? What value faders do I need? Oh, I want insert points too, preferably balanced."

Now, the first thing I get a kick out of is "quick question if you have a few minutes". If it starts with that, I now have a boiler plate response that goes something like this:

"This is a discussion for years not minutes! The complication of all this is incredibly enormous. I don't think it can be done on a simple level. In all reality, there are very detailed books written about console design. I would recommend starting there. Steve Dove has a large section in The Handbook For Sound Engineers. Also search deep and wide at GDIY. You will find many great things along with an excellent article that John Roberts wrote some years back."

That is the best info that I can give. Spend weeks & months searching the web reading everything you can find. If John posts something, read it, study it, bookmark it and read it again. Buy the Handbook and read it over and over again. Keep in mind this is a somewhat generalization of what needs to be done. Buy a couple of old consoles and gut them. Study them. Each and every trace, bus track and jumper wire you can find. These are all things I have done. I have the luxury of a 1976 API 3232 at my beckon call. Without a solid benchmark, forget about it. I mean really forget it. It will never happen. This is nearly full time work. Not only for the head of the design but also for the designers support staff. I wish I had a staff. It's just me. I really don't want a staff. I've had nearly 40 employees working for me at one point and never want to go back there again.

Time is your worst enemy. I have worked an ungodly number of hours on my project over the last few years. I feel like I have made very good progress but am still a little embarrassed that there is very little to show for it right now. The metalwork alone will cripple most guys who start out at this. I have the biggest chunk of that behind me. You need to be a very good CAD operator for something like this. You must be able to produce fully engineered, detailed drawings preferably in 3rd angle projection. You must fully understand machining, metal and assembly. Those few things will put a halt to most projects.

I could go on and on and haven't even started to really discuss any circuitry or signal paths.

That's all for now. Carry on.

Cheers, Jeff
 
Man, I just gotta say... I love how helpful this forum is. You guys are usually pretty quick to reply and always very informative.

As I'm reading through the article posted earlier I'm starting to realize just how complicated this can get.

How about I start with something that's (hopefully) a bit more simple?

Lets say I just want to start with a single rackmountable channel strip with my choice of preamp, compressor, and EQ.

Would this be any more feasible for someone such as myself?
 
Hi,

If money is not too much of an issue, then why not just buy a small console, or to get closer to the diy''ing of one, find one to restore. Build a gssl, build a gdiy rack and some nice outboard, all of which will be very useful and potentially time well spent and great for learning a whole range of transferable skills.

Think about all the music you can make/record in the time it will take to complete such a project, because that should be the fundamental goal...in my book anyway. You may build the best desk in the world...and why not for the hell of it, but it won't automatically improve your talent of capturing the music and make you a great recording engineer. Ask yourself what is more important to you?
 
chrispbass said:
If money is not too much of an issue, then why not just buy a small console, or to get closer to the diy''ing of one, find one to restore. Build a gssl, build a gdiy rack and some nice outboard, all of which will be very useful and potentially time well spent and great for learning a whole range of transferable skills.

I honestly haven't put much thought into restoring an older console but I think I could really get into that, thanks for the idea.
As for the gssl and other outboard stuff, I'm in the process of completing one right now and I've also just finished 7 of Jeff's preamps :D I'm still fairly new to the world of DIY audio gear but I am certainly addicted.
 
Hi all,

lots of good points already on the subject.. maybe you can buy an empty desk or a desk with electronics that no longer work / are really sub par (and thus cheap) and convert that? It could certainly help with metalwork. See this thread from sahib
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46458.0

where he is selling a console frame for example. Maybe you could get something similar local for your pet project and just prod it along as you go.

Myself, I'm going to put preamp modules (with line inputs, like missing link for api types and standard line in for neves) with EQ into eurocard 6U subracks and route their outputs to a summing box with pan pots and faders. That's going to be my mixer. inserts are manually taken care of at the patchbay through normalization and there would be no busses (just the stereo mixing buss) though I should implement aux sends but I didn't tackle that yet since I'm going to focus on preamps first.
 
I can speak from experience on this topic, although from an old perspective.

Back in the 1970's when I was Chief engineer at Ford  Audio and Acoustics, we began some small scale manufacturing: electronic crossovers, a Clearcom intercom work-alike system, add-on modules for the then-popular Tascam Model 10 mixer, etc.

Eventually, we decided to try and go into the recording desk manufacturing business.  The **ONE** desk built is shown and described in some detail here:

http://www.brianroth.com/projects/m77/m77.html

(I just noticed I never updated my email address on that page!)

I did the electronic design and laid out the various PC boards (using Bishop Graphics "doughnuts", IC pad "stickies" and various widths of crepe tape applied with an Exacto knife onto clear mylar film).  I laid out the front panels and an artistic Ford Audio co-worker did the final artwork with dry transfer letters and pen and ink onto some sort of art board stock.  That was then transferred onto silk screen  photo-stencil by another outside vendor who did the panel printing.  I was way too busy to do the silk screening myself....a quirky but fun process which I had taught myself for manufacturing other products we made at Ford Audio.

The desk's frame mechanical design was handled by a local company owned by a very smart mechanical engineer who also operated a pretty hip metal fab shop which cranked out all the aluminum and steel parts.  Yet other vendors handled the black anodizing of the front panels and stuff like zinc chromate plating of the steel parts.

It was a HUGE undertaking!

Best,

Bri
 
Maybe try a few channel strips first.  Your first adjective was "modular"....  ;D
It seems like your main goal is to have some hardware you can get your hands on, right?  And you aren't lusting after 80 channels; you said you were looking for 8-10. How many inputs does your "HD I/O via DB25" handle? Start with a few simple channel strips in standard 19-inch modules, and have an additional module that only converts an output from a channel trip into the DB25 connector.  As you add channel strips, this converter box becomes a summing box.

Approach it as a rack, rather than a console?  If you think you know where you want to stop, it might (?) simplify things to build a power supply that feeds all of the modules. That's my MO at the moment; I'd be glad to be proven wrong (and thus be saved some time).
 
gyraf said:
Where are you located?

Jakob E.

I live in central Utah at the moment.

There's some good insight and information here and I'll have to think about exactly what I want to do for the next little while.
So far, the most attractive idea for me would be hunting down a non-working console and attempting to restore it.

If I decide to do this are there any specific consoles you guys would recommend that I keep an eye out for?
As I have said before, I don't have much of an interest in a large console. My current HD native setup only supports 16 inputs.

 
I have actually designed consoles as my day job, and while it is not rocket science, it is science, with a lots of big picture and little picture detail work required to get good results. I would liken it to building your own house. Many people start out with a plan and end up with an education about things they never knew they needed to know. Just like building a house, most people only do it once, and swear they would have done it differently if they knew at the start what they know at the end. Even with commercial console designs there are newby mistakes that pop up from time to time with inexperienced designers.

There have been several threads around here on just this topic so find and read them first. I will not discourage you from building your own, I have seen several home made consoles by friends that were serviceable enough to support working recording studios (albeit a few decades ago).

It is fine to approach console design as a mix and match assembly of different parts, like an EQ from here, and bus design from there, as long as you have a good strategy for interfacing all the parts together seamlessly.

The Steve Dove series he wrote for Studio sound is a good reference, and there are many published schematics of other consoles. Part of you education should be to look at schematics from a few decent respected designs and strive to understand what every part in the design is doing. (hint: designers making 20x or 30x of anything, do not casually throw in extra parts.) 

Enjoy...  There are several people around here who can help you, but speaking for myself I prefer to not answer the obvious easy questions over and over. You can find answers for most of them yourself by searching here for old threads.

Note: If you are think you can do this without understanding the fundamental issues, by just throwing things together that look like they should work together, prepare to be disappointed (another word for educated).

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
I have actually designed consoles as my day job, and while it is not rocket science, it is science, with a lots of big picture and little picture detail work required to get good results. I would liken it to building your own house. Many people start out with a plan and end up with an education about things they never knew they needed to know. Just like building a house, most people only do it once, and swear they would have done it differently if they knew at the start what they know at the end. Even with commercial console designs there are newby mistakes that pop up from time to time with inexperienced designers.

I would just like support this reply. The key to successfully building a modular console is not electronics, or mechanics but know how. At Neve in the mid 70s I was responsible for designing many custom consoles. Although they were customised, the mechanics was already standardised, the input modules were standardised, the mix bus mechanics, electronics and grounding scheme were standardised, power supplies and power routing were standardised. All that standardisation represented the Neve know how built up over many years of building many consoles. The customisation consisted mainly of varying the number of channels, groups, auxes and monitoring - there was even a department that did nothing but design custom routing modules.

So, what I am saying is that even when you have the modules and the mechanics you are barely half way there because you need the know how to ensure noise, ground loops, and crosstalk for example are properly managed. There is little point in having wonderful sounding modules if you throw it away by poor grounding, mixing and power distribution.By all means start by building a few stand alone modules or restore an old console, just be aware that the journey to your own custom console will be a long one.

Cheers

Ian
 
I've drooled over the idea of a small 16 track build for years...not that I even really need one. I recently had a chance to tear down a neotek elite at a friend's studio as they were preparing it to ship. That was a great educational experience for me, as far as mechanics, routing and power management were concerned. The thing had to have about 19 miles of copper in it. Each channel went to and from the patch bay about 8 times, and the patch bay was all completely hand wired...
 
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