Gold

XLR Punch
« on: January 05, 2012, 11:00:18 AM »
I'm doing enough XLR chassis mount (Neutrik D) that it might make sense to punch them with a die instead of the tedious layout and measure four times to get it right routine.

Can I do this with an arbor press? I need to punch 18ga steel and 1/8" aluminum. Par-Metal chassis. If I can do it with an arbor press do I need to have a die made or is there a commercial product?


gyraf

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 11:20:05 AM »
Usually these punches (like the QMax) are used manually, with a bolt that you tighten to cut through - no need for a press unless you're doing serious quantities

For the Gyraf series, I still use the hand tool..

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/55-693_Q-MAX-PUNCH-24mm

For marking of drill-positions (3 drills/xlr: centre and two mounting screws), a simple template printed out on paper and held in place temporarily by tape, and then marked-through with a centre punch...

Jakob E.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 11:24:33 AM by gyraf »
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 11:35:26 AM »
For marking of drill-positions (3 drills/xlr: centre and two mounting screws), a simple template printed out on paper and held in place temporarily by tape, and then marked-through with a centre punch...

I'm going for ruler straight. Anything that's off more than .01" drives me crazy. I haven't been able to use the template method successfully when packing many close together. I can get there with calipers but it is very very time consuming.

I have knockout punches like the one you linked to. I was talking about a die that does all three holes. It could be knockout punch style but I have to do a lot of panels and I see needing this in the future. I think an arbor press where I can clamp the work piece and double check with a caliper would be best.

pucho812

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 12:22:45 PM »
times like that a drill press along with some clamps is mighty handy. or even a drill guide.
Every mic has a purpose it might be a door stop or a hammer, but every mic has a purpose.

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2012, 12:51:44 PM »
I have a drill press with a cross slide. This along with multiple calipers gets me to the accuracy I want. I want to get that accuracy but faster.

I have a radial arm drill press that I had modified so that the drill table is rigid. This was a fools errand as it's nowhere near as stiff as a real mill. I can't use the cross slide to accurately measure because the cross slide still moves around a little. Hence calipers. I have a 24" caliper so I can lay out a whole pane from a single point at the edge of the panel.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:56:00 PM by Gold »

drjoe

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 12:26:03 AM »
15/16 Greenlee punch is under $50 and does xlr holes very well. Certain D-connectors need additional filing but they're a breeze to use.

gemini86

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 03:07:13 AM »
Wouldn't it be great if they made one that did the mounting screws simultaneously? ;) Seriously though...I think I should start making specialty tools for diy audio.
- Rodney

"...you better call Kenny Loggins, 'cause you're in the danger zone."

Kingston

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 08:47:14 PM »
http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/55-693_Q-MAX-PUNCH-24mm

awww CRAP!  >:( I just ordered some stuff from canford and this would have been absolutely perfect for me as well. Oh well, maybe next time (like two years). All my back panels look like absolute crap from using stepped drill when making holes for XLR.  :(

zebra50

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 05:11:09 AM »
Hi Mikko,

Those are very handy, and a bit cheaper than when I bought mine!
If you are worried about the minimum order, I order from them about once a month, so can get one for you next time if you like.

Stewart
Ribbon microphone services
http://www.xaudia.com
Microphone blog



zebra50

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 02:29:19 PM »
Ribbon microphone services
http://www.xaudia.com
Microphone blog

mrclunk

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2012, 06:59:50 AM »
oh yeah, strange.
I only use 22.5mm for xlr's tho.

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 01:31:12 PM »
I talked to the machine shop downstairs and they said they can make a punch with the three holes for the Neutrik D. He has a small hydraulic punch that he said could give me for close to free. Or I can use his manual flywheel punch. Both the punches are 5 ton. He said he wouldn't recommend an arbor press for this. A 1 ton arbor press is pretty big. A 5 ton would be huge.

gemini86

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 04:38:39 PM »
How much is he charging for the punch?
- Rodney

"...you better call Kenny Loggins, 'cause you're in the danger zone."

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 05:56:54 PM »
We haven't gotten that far yet. He said there are some options. He has standard round punches he could fit in tooling. He could also make something from scratch. I suppose I could buy some standard punches and have him make the mount. I have used him for a bunch of stuff so he's kind with the pricing-for NY

It mostly depends on whether I want to permanently have the capability or whether I just want to use his shop when I need to do stuff. I'm leaning toward having the capability in house.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 06:01:10 PM by Gold »

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 02:02:57 PM »
Here is a little update. It turns out the punch idea isn't a good one. If using standard punches mounted in tooling the small mounting holes would have a tendency to pull in. The machinist said that the way to do it would be to make custom tooling using slots instead of mounting holes. This custom tooling would be expensive to make and need to be sharpened regularly. This is impractical.

After much experimentation I've figured out a quick way to accurately mount XLR connectors. The experimentation proved useful as I was able to see where inaccuracies crept in. I learned a bunch.

I mark with a caliper where the center holes should be. Then I drill them out with a stepper bit. Then I mount the xlr connectors in the holes. With a machinists square I line them up straight. I clamp the work piece and the square. I then can keep pressure on the xlr against the square and use my Foredom rotary tool to drill the mounting holes. I use a #29 (.140") bit to drill the holes. I use this bit because it's very close to the diameter of the mounting holes and therefore self centering. It comes out nice and is MUCH less time consuming than measuring everything out.


david-p

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 02:19:59 PM »
I mark with a caliper where the center holes should be. Then I drill them out with a stepper bit. Then I mount the xlr connectors in the holes.
Can one use stepper bits for this purpose using a hand held power drill, or does one need a drill press?

David
www.fugato.com/pickett/
Recording in Stereo and Surround with RME convertors (FF400 & UFX) and Samplitude

david-p

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 02:25:38 PM »
Usually these punches (like the QMax) are used manually, with a bolt that you tighten to cut through - no need for a press unless you're doing serious quantities.

For marking of drill-positions (3 drills/xlr: centre and two mounting screws), a simple template printed out on paper and held in place temporarily by tape, and then marked-through with a centre punch...
Jakob E.

I find a template and centre punch gives extremely accurate results.

Can one use QMax cutters/punches on steel sheet, or are they only intended for aluminium?

David
www.fugato.com/pickett/
Recording in Stereo and Surround with RME convertors (FF400 & UFX) and Samplitude

gemini86

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2012, 02:37:23 PM »
I got the greenlee equivalent just last week, it cuts aluminum like butter, so I imagine it world work well on steel, just with more turning effort. Also, template and center punch are the easy to go. Print your template on card stock, as thick as your printer can handle, so it will last flat and won't rip. Leave it in when using the punch, once you drill your pilot holes, you have no way to center the punch, since the pilot hole is quite larger than the draw bolt.
- Rodney

"...you better call Kenny Loggins, 'cause you're in the danger zone."

Gold

Re: XLR Punch
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2012, 02:49:56 PM »
The problem I have found with a template or other methods involving measuring and scribing is that the drill size for the corner mounting holes is smaller than the tip of the stepper bit. It's then crucial and difficult to make sure the stepper bit is centered to the pilot hole. You could use a larger bit to drill the center pilot hole but this is three tool changes for each xlr. Very time consuming. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm essentially using the connector as a template. Even a template would need to be squared. I'm talking about packing a bunch of xlr's close together. For a couple on a big back panel it doesn't matter as much (unless you are particular about looks).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 02:56:36 PM by Gold »