DIY Tele AR-51 project stalled

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HellfireStudios

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Joined
Oct 17, 2011
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513
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Would anyone happen to have a schematic for the Telefunken AR-51 Tube Mic? I've found the circuit is similar to the Apex 460 mods. The way pin 2 of the tube is wired is a little different (check out the internal pics online), and two caps are removed(C1 and C2 on the 460). As far as the component values are concerned, I have no way of knowing, as I don't have access to this mic.
If any owners of this mic would be gracious enough to open their mics, take pics, and/or list the part values (mainly the top row of compnents and the smaller electrolytic cap I'm concerned about), I would be forever greatful.
Until I get this sorted, I can't move foreward with my DIY mic, and that's sad...
Thanks.

-James-
 
Why AR-51 clone? They say it's based on C12 and ELA M 251E. Why don't you clone C12 or ELA M 251E circuit instead? Schematics easily found and lot's of information around how to "improve" them (1 Gig resistors etc.)
 
The reason I wanted to clone the AR-51 is because it's a 251 clone that uses a k67 capsule (which I have), T14 transformer (I've got ana extra Cinemag CM-2480 laying around as well), and ECC82/12AT7 (Got one of these too). All I need is a body and circuit board components. So, at least for me, it should be cheap to build, and sound great from what I've gathered.
My circuit value concerns arose due to the fact that I'm not sure what changes would need to be made to accomodate the different tube and capsule of the AR-51 in the 251-like circuit (example- the cathode bias resistor is 2.7k on the AR-51 and 1.8k on the 251). Also, the online internal pics don't reveal too much in the way of values. Although, I've figured out the obvious components (most of the bottom row in the pics), I've no clue as to the values of the other parts. Thanks.

Here's a link to the internal pics.
http://www.foxaudioresearch.ca/ar-51.htm

-James-

 
The link says it's a 251E circuit but with 140V B+, 2.7k cathode resistor and 12AT7. Though it can't be the whole truth (the polar pattern scheme has to be different with K67 type capsule), going that way will probably bring you very close to AR-51 circuit. My guesses about the other components:

The small electrolytic -> most likely the transformer coupling cap, 3.2uF (or 1uF) in the 251E.

The yellow cap -> grid coupling cap, most likely a ~1nF polypropylene

The red/brown cap -> a filter cap, 4800pF in the 251E, most likely bigger value in AR-51

Blue resistors -> 2 X 8M and the 30M in 251E, most likely bigger values in AR-51, maybe 3 X 1G

I could be wrong, but using these values will probably yield a good mic. And try to raise the value of the 100pF for more top roll off. And the bigger cathode bypass cap for less low shelf.
 
I've been up for around 22 hrs. working on this particular conundrum. Please forgive me, if I get any of this wrong.

-As the Telefunken mic is a Chinese rebranding of sorts, the polar pattern switching is done on the power supply like the Apex 460 (the circuit isn't too different either).
-The smaller electrolytic is the cathode bias cap(a 20uF). The larger electrolytic happens to be the coupling cap. rated at 2uF in the pic (C8 in the Apex).
-The yellow Illinois cap connects between the two positive capsule leads. My research leads me to believe it will probably be a 4800pF.
-I think you're right about the other 4800pF cap.
-I'm pretty sure one of the ohmites is an 8M ohm (the one next to the panasonic). Next resistor, from right to left, is probably 30M based on the schematics.
-The last ohmite resistor is for the pattern switching. Stock Apex 460's use a 51M ohm. Most mods don't require a change to this part, but the C12 uses a 30M and the C24 uses what looks like 1M pots. I'm tempted to find the closest value to 51M I can, and call it a day.
-There isn't a 100pF cap on the AR-51 where the ELA M 251 would have one. I'm thinking an on-off-on single-pole toggle with a 100pF and 200pF on the throws. (Bright, Smooth, and Warm settings maybe? We'll see...)

Any other ideas or concerns would be appreciated, and thanks for the help so far. I might actually get some sleep now.

Just for general knowledge's sake, the circit is very close to the Apex 460 and all of its cousins. The major changes outside of component values is the way C4, C5, R6, and the front diaphram are wired to ground.
 
Cool, you seem to have it together well! So they use original ELA M values for the critical parts, resulting in high pass and low shelf.

The electrolytic coupling capacitor in a mic of this price seems a little odd, but the lack of the 100pF might explain it. It may very well smoothen the top end compared to polypros etc. I think I'll try this too. Have a good rest!
 
Just trying to figure out the circuit was hard enough, but I still can't be 100% sure about the component values. I'm basing my ideas on the small amount of info available on a relatively new mic, and the ELAM M 251 schematics I've downloaded. It's been said that the circuit is a "dead ringer" for the 251 with the already stated power supply and cathode bias changes.
I really wish the resistors-most-likely-to-change weren't the most expensive on the board (Ohmites). As far as that electrolytic being the transformer coupling cap, I'm a little put off by this as well. I seem to be partial to Illinois caps in this position (thank God for DIY).
Does anyone know if a switched smoothing cap setup would cause any circuit instabilty, or loud popping while switching?
Oh yeah, I'm building from scratch on this one, and want to know if a spherical/lollypop-style headbasket (think BLUE) would have a detrimental effect on the response of the mic. If not, what kind of acoustic effects could I be in store for (in comparison to the stock cylindrical headbasket)?
If anyone cold check my work against a real AR-51, I would appreciate it.
I hope the mic sounds as good as the reviews imply. Thanks, again, Pasarski. If you try this before I get the funds around, let me know what you find sounds best.
 

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