Analog limiter for mastering

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Aleguitarpro

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
179
Location
ITALY
Hi!
I've built some stuff for my studio, like a 1176 Rev F compressor, a stereo couple of point-to-point LA2a compr/lim, a stereo vari-mu compressor based on Altec436, a summing mixer with a neumann v475 card and now I'm finishing my setup with a GSSL (SS mod+turbo mod), a Sontec stereo eq and a Gpultec.

When usually I master music, I use in my setup:
- software equalizer, usually from LIQUID MIX emulations (not for long time...I'm waiting to finish the Sontec :)
- ANALOG COMPRESSOR (my vari-mu or a TFpro p.38 stereo compr.)
- then software Limiter (another time liquid mix or Logic's limiter) or TC ELECTRONIC finalizer, using only the limiter section

I'm thinking to build a DIY REAL ANALOG LIMITER for mastering applications, but I don't know if is there something useful for this application here...
I've seen the TG1 or a 33609, thas has brickwall limiter, that could be right for me.

I don't want to waste my money: I use ALWAYS all the machines that I've in my studio and everything has his specific applications.
Any opinion or suggestion?? :)

Thanks!!
 
you could rack up a pair of NTP 179-400 limiter cards or simply buy an old EMT 266 or 266X. That´s the most you can get from analog brickwall limiting.
 
I think I'll go for the NTP 179-400 cards... I haven't tried them, but I've found a lot of positive reviews about them!
Thanks
 
You could send the signal to the side chain input from the gssl and delay the signal that is compressed by the same amount as the attack time.
 
I haven't understand you or the procedure... :)
Please, could you describe better the passage?
What could I obtain with this procedure?
 
What he is saying is say you have an analog compressor with 1ms time from when it "sees" the signal to when it compresses. You could delay you signal by 1ms inside your DAW and send it through your compressor, then via the compressors sidechain send an undelayed copy of the same audio.

"look-ahead" feature for analog.

You could strap some 8.6v zener diodes on the output of your ssl....limit analog style.
 
abechap024 said:
What he is saying is say you have an analog compressor with 1ms time from when it "sees" the signal to when it compresses. You could delay you signal by 1ms inside your DAW and send it through your compressor, then via the compressors sidechain send an undelayed copy of the same audio.

"look-ahead" feature for analog.

You could strap some 8.6v zener diodes on the output of your ssl....limit analog style.

Can you describe how the effect of look-ahead comp trick, and when i need that trick ?

Thanks

Simon
 
simonsez said:
abechap024 said:
What he is saying is say you have an analog compressor with 1ms time from when it "sees" the signal to when it compresses. You could delay you signal by 1ms inside your DAW and send it through your compressor, then via the compressors sidechain send an undelayed copy of the same audio.

"look-ahead" feature for analog.

You could strap some 8.6v zener diodes on the output of your ssl....limit analog style.

Can you describe how the effect of look-ahead comp trick, and when i need that trick ?

Thanks

Simon

Compressors and limiters distort the sound they are processing while they are changing gain. Also attack times that are not fast enough to get the gain as low as it needs to be can allow signal to overshoot.  Using delay to create some look ahead time allows the same amount of gain change to be performed with slower attack times for lower distortion and less overshoot.

It seems more than 1 mSec could help even more, but you don't want so much lead that the gain changes appear disconnected from the audio changes. 

JR
 
@simonsez

download the free reacomp from reaplugs

http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/index.php

you can tweak its lookahead (and other settings) to get the feel of how it affects the sound.
 
JohnRoberts said:
simonsez said:
abechap024 said:
What he is saying is say you have an analog compressor with 1ms time from when it "sees" the signal to when it compresses. You could delay you signal by 1ms inside your DAW and send it through your compressor, then via the compressors sidechain send an undelayed copy of the same audio.

"look-ahead" feature for analog.

You could strap some 8.6v zener diodes on the output of your ssl....limit analog style.

Can you describe how the effect of look-ahead comp trick, and when i need that trick ?

Thanks

Simon

Compressors and limiters distort the sound they are processing while they are changing gain. Also attack times that are not fast enough to get the gain as low as it needs to be can allow signal to overshoot.  Using delay to create some look ahead time allows the same amount of gain change to be performed with slower attack times for lower distortion and less overshoot.

It seems more than 1 mSec could help even more, but you don't want so much lead that the gain changes appear disconnected from the audio changes. 

JR

That´s exactly the reason why I mentioned the EMT266. It´s an all analog look ahead limiter. The delay in the audiopath is done with an allpass filter of 300us delay time. That´s enough to have the sidechain do it´s work. No more transient overshoots. 266s were used to protect transmitter poweramps amongst others.
 
I recall messing with all pass filters to generate delay, back in the bad old days to time align bandpasses for loudspeaker crossovers.  To generate a useful delay over the entire frequency bandwidth requires stacking multiple bandpasses (IIRC).

JR



 
Ok... now I understand the "look-ahead" procedure and the reason to do it...

I could use the "look-ahead" technique for a compressor, but I use always a vari-mu compressor (as mastering compressor) and my TFpro p38 hasn't the sidechain access... My new Gssl will have the sidechain, so I could use it with this technique.

I haven't any limiter, at the moment.

In my first post, infact, I ask if someone use a DIY project as mastering limiter...
 
If this is about good results and not just having fun then I'd do it the way that 99% of real mastering guys do it - digital limiting.  We are conditioned to believe that everything analog is better, for peak limiting I believe digital is better.  For compression I prefer analog but others prefer plug ins.

My mastering world is most often D/A, analog de-esser, analog eq, analog comp or two, A/D, M-S digital EQ, digital limiter.

Good luck
 
jensenmann said:
That´s exactly the reason why I mentioned the EMT266. It´s an all analog look ahead limiter. The delay in the audiopath is done with an allpass filter of 300us delay time. That´s enough to have the sidechain do it´s work. No more transient overshoots. 266s were used to protect transmitter poweramps amongst others.

Hows the signal after it has gone through these all pass filters? Any degradation?
 
ruairioflaherty said:
We are conditioned to believe that everything analog is better, for peak limiting I believe digital is better.  For compression I prefer analog

I also find the same thing, for brickwall limiting or peak limiting, digital works much better

I would recommend you to try :

Massey L2007 Mastering limiter

and

Slate Digital FG-X

these are the best Brickwall limiters in my opinion
 
Add Voxengo Elephant and PSP Xenon to your list to try also - they are my two favorites in that order.

For sheer volume and transparency Elephant in clip mode is hard to beat - it retains transients and dynamics really well but can get harsh - for playing your part in the loudness wars however it's truly amazing and sits as a default loaded plugin in my mixing template file.

For a squishier more analog limiter Xenon is the most transparent and "most nice" I've heard.
 
radiance said:
jensenmann said:
That´s exactly the reason why I mentioned the EMT266. It´s an all analog look ahead limiter. The delay in the audiopath is done with an allpass filter of 300us delay time. That´s enough to have the sidechain do it´s work. No more transient overshoots. 266s were used to protect transmitter poweramps amongst others.

Hows the signal after it has gone through these all pass filters? Any degradation?

My Gssl sounds like a Turbo-Rat pedal compared to the EMT
 
jensenmann said:
radiance said:
jensenmann said:
That´s exactly the reason why I mentioned the EMT266. It´s an all analog look ahead limiter. The delay in the audiopath is done with an allpass filter of 300us delay time. That´s enough to have the sidechain do it´s work. No more transient overshoots. 266s were used to protect transmitter poweramps amongst others.

Hows the signal after it has gone through these all pass filters? Any degradation?

My Gssl sounds like a Turbo-Rat pedal compared to the EMT

Yeah, and EVERYONE knows that the original Rat pedal is MUCH better than the Turbo Rat.

-a
 

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