Which Microphone to Start the Royer Mod?

Hello,

I want to do the Royer Mod and i am looking to buy a microphone for that purpose :
Which one should i get so i could possibly use as much from the stock components as possible like Capsule etc...

Behringer B2 Pro
T-bone SC450
MXL 2003

...

Thank you
Manu

Why not Behringer B1? You only need a single side capsule for Royer mod and people say B1 has a good one. If it's not an option I'd choose the tbone, cheapest.

Ok !
Good to know,

I've read on this forum that B2 pro uses 797 audio capsule which are know to be quite good.

Though those threads were written in 2006 or so... they might have change company know and gotten something cheaper in there...

Have you done the Royer mod? Or would you recommend the G7 Gyraf mod? or simply keeping the FET design?

Manu

The Royer mod was based on the MXL 2001 which appears to be the same as the T.bone SC450. The capsule appears the same, but it is impossible to know the original factory.

The 2003 is transformerless. I'm not sure if the body styles are the same internally, but you won't have the transformer shield found in the 2001 and you wouldn't be able to the "U87 front end" mod I posted in the other thread. Here are some 2003 threads:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=1155

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=995

There are pictures of the 2003 internals but I don't know the circuit in the 2003 or 2003A so can't speak to other mods of those mics. I believe the current 2003A is different. See http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/MXL/2003A There is some mention of the original 2003 having a good capsule, but you would have to procure a 2003 on the used market.

The Royer is a completely new circuit. You can use a PCB, or recycle a PCB or wire on perf board.

Realistically, with the Royer Mod (or the BigUgly version, which uses the G7 pattern switching) you are only using a microphone as a body donor, and perhaps the capsule, although others have used the basic Royer circuit with different capsules as well.

  Any of the MXL 2001-style mics, which includes the V67, and a few others (maybe 2006?), as well as some other brands such as the T-bone Blue Jinn and Pasarski mentioned. Look for the brass-ringed center-terminated capsule, and transformer. They can be quite inexpensive used, and will have two 1 gig resistors. The V67 has a nice, large body, so everything fits in it easily.
  If Pasarski says the B-ringer B1, I believe him.
  I personally really like my modded original 2003, and wouldn't turn it into a Royer mic, tho most reports say those capsules sound good with the Royer head amp. It is one of the few mics I like on my own voice for rock vocals, and the change of 3 caps was one of the simplest upgrades I've done, so I'm staying with it.
  The Big Ugly Royer mod combines aspects of the G7 with Royers circuit to make a multi-pattern mic. Just finished one and liking it a lot, but recommend starting with cardioid version.
    G7 is a classic, and lots of documentation here on that, but if you're just getting started with mics, do a Royer.

I've done a G7 circuit with the 5840 Royer mod uses. Also tried it without the 1G grid leak resistor which makes it closer to Royer circuit, didn't notice much change. Also tried omitting the cathode bypass cap but you really need the higher ratio OT as in Royer circuit for that, 6.45:1 OEP I have didn't quite make it.

tchgtr said:

 
  If Pasarski says the B-ringer B1, I believe him.
 

Click to expand...

Don't take my word for it, worth to try though.

Sounds very good !

Thank you for all the support,

I guess as my first Tube mod, i would like to do the Simple Royer Mod, since i feel i will understand much more about Tube designs and all.

I'm considering getting a good body and just putting everything in it including a nice capsule and Transformer...
Has anyone tried the AAmicrophones Capsules? They have a very nice Price range !

Will stick with the Simple Royer Mod then, now i have to find a good Used mic for cheap... Behringer is quite easy to find here (Finland).

How about the Royer 603 mod? I've heard many people having Hum problems and needed to separate the Audio section from PSU very clearly...
T-bone sells this Sc140 which has a 18mm gold capsule and the capsule is very close to the edge of the mic(Like the Neumann). It's only 48 euros, that's cheap...

Maybe could work on both design at the same time, seems like the Royer PSU is the same on both models...

Manu

If i was to do the 2001 Mod can someone check if i am on the right direction?

Royer MXL 2001 Mod BOM

Mic circuit
C1 - 0.1uf 250v (1429-2104)
C2 - 1uf 250v (1429-2105)
R1 - 750 ohm (299-750-RC)
R2 - 22M 1/4watt (291-22M-RC)
R3 - 3M (293-3M-RC)
R4 - 2M (293-2M-RC)
R5 - 100k (291-100K-RC)
J1 – 5 pin XLR male
T1 – Jensen DB-E uncased or Cinemag CM-2480
V1 – 5840 subminiature tube

Power Supply Circuit
F1 – ½ amp fuse
D1, D2, D3 – 400x diode (512-1N4004)
C1, C2, C3 – 2200uf 35v electrolytic (140-XRL35V2200-RC)
C4, C5 – 33uf, 100v electrolytic (140-XRL100V33-RC)
C6, C7 – 33uf, 160v electrolytic (140-XRL160V33-RC)
R1 – 100ohm, 5W (280-CR5-100-RC)
R2 – 82ohm, 5W (280-CR5-82-RC)
R3, R4 – 4.7k, ½ W (293-4.7K-RC)
T2 – 24VAC, 1 amp (XR-2450LED)

And then i would follow this http://recordinghacks.com/articles/one-tube-microphone-from-berlin/

and this : http://crodog.org/tubemic/tubemic.htm

Am i good to go?
Or does anyone has suggestions for the values or circuit?

I am going for a u47-ish sound. A mic to use on my vocals, here is me singing : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWXuR7qmfew
A mic that would have a nic bump around 4khz but not harsh in the highs...

THanks guys

I have a pdf of the article for the Royer Mod if you want. Also, I made some of Bigugly's PCBs which I used for a single sided Royer mod if you want to use a PCB instead of point to point or the crodog method. Bigugly's power uses a higher voltage transformer though, so you may want to go with the original design.

I have some extra 5 pin XLR's and some no-name 11.5:1 transformers as well. (THese are a bit large and required some drilling of the body to fit.) If you have trouble sourcing parts PM me and we can work something out. There are good part sources in Europe though.

A post on tapeop suggested the Switchcraft XLR's (A5M) install easier then the Neutrik on the MXL body. I followed that advice and used Switchcraft. They installed easily. I have a build thread on homerecording.com. You need to register there to see the pictures though.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/special-forums/diy-mods-homebrew/royer-mod-starting-331451/2/

That's very nice,

I would love to get the PDF from you so i could print it out and work off the computer...

Though for any parts i will first look around to see what i have and i want to order a capsule from Aamicrophones so i might also order a Transformer from him, or get a lundahl... let's see.

You said there are good resources in Europe, do you know a good equivalent for Mouser or Digikey?

Would it be too much asking you to point out the main differences between The original and Big Ugly's version of the Royer Mod?
Getting PCBs would be great, it makes things cleaner though i'd like to know if the Big Ugly version is a benefit or not...

Thank you again for your help, i am looking out at your threads :http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46004.0

I can email you the pdf on Tuesday, I'm not at that computer today. Please pm me an email address. I know of Farnell in the UK. Check some of [silent arts] threads as to sources in Germany. The D-AOC threads has a BOM for a German supplier. look here for the pdf: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg316722#msg316722 several different companies.

Bigugly adapted the G7 pattern scheme to the Royer circuit, and raised the b+ from 100v to 120v so the voltage divider network is slightly different.  On Tuesday I can send you the files I have. It also differs from the G7 in the grounding scheme at the microphone. There is another thread on this, and how to minimize hum. If you build the cardioid version this isn't a factor. The PCB's will work for both, you just omit some parts and re-orient some a few. I recycled one of the teflon posts from the 2001 I used as a donor mic. You may need to adjust the voltage divider though if you go for 120v B+ as the original circuit is designed to put 60v at the capsule.

I don't know if Dave Thomas has a 12:1 transformer or not. YOu'll have to ask. He does have 47/67/and C12 type capsules. The 47 stylle aren't listed on his website, but I am pretty sure they are US$95.

  Doing the first Royer circuit really taught me a lot about power supplies, which was a blind spot for me at the time. Doing the Big Ugly taught me even more about PSUs, especially the way that capsule polarization is done, but also because PRR posted some really enlightening PSU info in the Big Ugly thread. In addition to that, there is lots of drilling, filing, deciding where to put everything, dealing with AC, fusing, pilot lights, and all the boring (but incredibly important) stuff that goes with making a decent PSU.
  The work on the mics themselves is relatively easy, and much more fun...and you can easily change capsules and OTs later.
The PSU is the hardest part, and when I build them I think about Gus always reminding us how good some solid state circuits can sound.

But the first time I used my Royer in combo with my stereo B&O ribbon for a live recording, it was all worth while.

Get and mod some Oktava MC-012s for SDCs. Especially if you can get a good deal with all 3 capsules. I personally wouldn't bother with trying to improve the MXL 603.

Thanks everybody for such good answers...

I would love to start my royer mod and maybe also doing the Oktava thing great mics and pretty cheap...

Though i've been in touch with Dave Thomas who explained me that the circuit used in Apex460 and in my T-bone sct2000 were much cleaner and smoother sounding than Royer Mods...

Based on the 6028a and a good capsule the mic would be Amazing!

So i think i will follow that and start moding my T-bone, then try a Royer mod from Scratch on a mic i can buy... anything can work.

I would love to do that Oktava SDC mod...
Any thoughts about the sounding differences between Apex460 mod and Royer?

Manu

As soon as I get a package of parts from Dave my next project is the Apex 460 (these are actually OEM unbranded HST-11a from the white market..) mods. I'm doing his mod, replacing the tube, transformer (his BV11 which is 5:1), capsule (OEM C12 style), and coupling cap, and eliminating some of the other caps. I'll start a thread on that at soon as I start.

I used BigUgly's PCB's for the PSU. It still required drilling and what not, and I don't have a stepped bit, or punch to make holes for hte XLR's so the 5 pin cable is hardwired at the moment....

  I like Dave Thomas' comments on the 460 circuit, and left my Nady 1050 with the CCDA and original OT intact, just to have that clean tone, but that's a U47-style head basket, as opposed to the more C12 style of the Apex 460. I'm interested to see Blue Jinns thread, and watching the other C12 threads happening now.
    So much has to do with capsule type, head basket style, circuit, and transformer.
    Royer modeled his circuit after the U47, but then we put it in a U67-style body and head basket with a U67-style center-terminated capsule.
    I put the U67/87-style capsule from the 1050 into a U67-type body/head basket with the Royer/BigUgly/G7 plate-out circuit, and it sounds much better than it did in the 1050. Maybe that's because of the lower polarization voltage, or the plate-out circuit. It's bright, and probably needs some of the filtering that goes with those capsules, but the top end is incredibly clean.
    Put one of the Chinese C12s in the Nady, but now I'm wondering if the polarization voltage shouldn't be lowered. It sounds better now, and probably matches that circuit better than the 67-style capsule, but theoretically, a U47-style capsule should be used in that head basket.
    Clean mics are desirable, of course, but the stock Oktava 319 is a bit trashy, yet there's still something special about that mic (as an example) that makes it very useful.
Just sayin'...

Blue Jinn,

I want to order the same from Dave Thomas, i really understood that from him the circuit in Apex 460 (CCDA) is a much cleaner circuit with less distortion... Or get a RK-47 and BV8 TX.
Even though my t-bone is a U-47 style basket it think it will work just fine.

I really want to do the Royer Mod too as a "From scratch" Project...

tchgtr, Do you really think mic bodies influence a lot on LDC? I mean on SDC i understand how the body can affect on frequency response, is it that important on LDC?
Dave thomas recommend to lower the voltage to run the tube a a reasonable level.

It's true, clean is not always the right way... though i love my SM7 for example, i can sing as loud, the mic takes it like nothing..

I'll get that order and will post about it soon.
Manu

manulaudic said:

tchgtr, Do you really think mic bodies influence a lot on LDC? I mean on SDC i understand how the body can affect on frequency response, is it that important on LDC?

Manu

Click to expand...

Not the body, so much as the head basket/grill. If you are trying to emulate a C12 sound, for example, putting the proper capsule in a head basket shaped like a U67 will not give quite the same frequency response.
It is certainly something to consider, but I'm not saying you shouldn't experiment and hear the difference. Maybe you will find something you really like.