question about wire types

A bit of a newbie question here.  Just checking to see if there are particular parts of a microphone's internal wiring that require "special stuff".

I've been using stranded silver-plated teflon wire for everything in various gauges and have not had problems, but wanted to know particularly with high impedance sections, capsule connections, etc. what I should be using.  If the silver teflon wire is good, what gauge should I be using optimally?  I'd like to stock up on various colors of the proper gauges so I can make the internals clean and legible for diagnosis.  Thus far, my default is to simply use bigger wire if unclear and it has not adversely effected any of my builds.

I'm sure there is a lot of voodoo out there surrounding the use of various wire types, but if there is even marginal advantage to using certain types for small-scale DIY, I'd be interested being a little bit uncompromising to give my projects the best shot at success.


(Edit)
Found some answers.  It seems many top-end builders use stranded 28 AWG PTFE (teflon) silver plated wire for capsule connections.  The high insulating properties of PTFE seem to be desirable, but as gauge increases, the wire can be microphonic, so 28 AWG seems to be the sweet spot.

Heya!

Can you point me a good place I could get this wiring?

Thx

I asked on this same in my c414 topic.
There was no a brave

Ha, it's funny, because i've used ptfe coated silver wire on c414 and as before on many dynamic microphones - i found today label - it's exactly 28AWG

Everything's fine, except stripping insulation.

Here's where I get my stuff:

http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html

Teflon coated, silver plated, good to 600V:  and you can solder it all day and it doesn't shrink and burn like PVC coated stuff does.

I've bought PTFE wire from Farnell. Alpha Wire IIRC

-Paavo

If someone needs cheaper, especially people from US:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&item=380423411193&pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&_osacat=0&hash=item58930095f9&_ssn=navships&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=wire&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Matador said:

Here's where I get my stuff:

http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html

Teflon coated, silver plated, good to 600V:  and you can solder it all day and it doesn't shrink and burn like PVC coated stuff does.

Click to expand...

Thx man!

And sorry about the english dumbness, but what means AWG?

Thx in advance!

I have a question about silver-plated copper wire. Some folks feel silver-plated wire makes the sound artificially bright. I found this googling.

I would like to use it for its electrical properties - silver is the best conductor, above copper and way above gold.

However I don't want to create a "bright" sound.

Any thoughts on this?

What about pure silver then? Some reports are that pure silver create a beautiful, open sound.

Also, I have a feeling some high-quality tin-plated copper would be great as well. I've already got boatloads of it. But like Chunger, I don't mind spending a little money for better stuff if it's going to make a difference.

What have your experiences been?

Thanks,

Mike

I'm no guru guys. That being said good quality cable is a consideration. I have never tested for sound quality from different conductors. I know people who are seriouse builders who also never have. The gauge is important for power ratings, and the shield is important to block RF. solid wire breaks easily and I usually have better experiences with stranded wire. Now you could get technical about this but I would have trouble believing that there is a huge sonic difference from copper to silver. An audio test on this would be easy. Take a good stretch of both kinds and find out. I personally am unwilling to do the test because I'm perfectly content with shielded copper wire.

Check out REDCO for good cable in the US. Good prices, fast shipping, and they have very little low end stuff in stock.

I think AWG means audio wire gauge.

Thanks buildafriend. I read an interesting article in which the designer of a high-end amplifier was using regular ol' zipcord for speaker wire connections!

It was a lengthy article, but the upshot was, plain ol' copper is perfect. What makes the difference is the gauge. He did a lot of testing of this and proved it in blind listening sessions.

Funny thing, however. His customers were so annoyed that he was using zipcord that he ended up buying more expensive wire just so they would stop focussing on the wire instead of his amplifiers!

mateus said:

Thx man!

And sorry about the english dumbness, but what means AWG?

Thx in advance!

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

You have conversion table here.

Phrazemaster said:

I have a question about silver-plated copper wire. Some folks feel silver-plated wire makes the sound artificially bright. I found this googling.

I would like to use it for its electrical properties - silver is the best conductor, above copper and way above gold.

However I don't want to create a "bright" sound.

Any thoughts on this?

What about pure silver then? Some reports are that pure silver create a beautiful, open sound.

Also, I have a feeling some high-quality tin-plated copper would be great as well. I've already got boatloads of it. But like Chunger, I don't mind spending a little money for better stuff if it's going to make a difference.

What have your experiences been?

Thanks,

Mike

Click to expand...

For me is mostly psychological visualisation of sound, based upon conductor color
I worked with audiophiles, when i worked in hi-fi/hi-end shops few years ago.
In blind tests were never able to determine which cable sounds brighter.
When they knew, which cable is silver plated - this always sounds brighter
There's a lot of theory, without any scientific tests, sometimes sucked from the thumb.
There's a lot of speaker cables which sounds different, and some people do measurements of them - and yes, sometimes it's measurable difference.
This based mostly on configuration of conductors, proper gauge and other factors which makes from cables micro filters.
For audio, especially small signals, stranded wires are better in theory.
Proper insulation in theory is important, but mostly on hf signals much higher than 20kHz.
Many people will say that only pure copper sounds best.
This is marketing mostly
What's important, that wires can't be bended much.
This factor will affect to sound.
When you don't need to use shileding cable - don't use it - those have higher capacitance. Sometimes it's good to twist wires - it's shielding by itself.
Many people think that Roy Kimber invented this
Many years before, this was used in telephony, tube technology, ham radio etc.
Some manufacturers of hi-end gear need to use "better in theory" wires, but this is only marketing, mostly forced by clients.
When i can, i'm using wires with teflon insulation, which in theory is the best.
I'm trying to use good manufacturers cables i'm not buing products from china, because i don't have any information about those manufacturers.
I'm using copper, silver, silver plated wires - this depends on price and gauge only.
Most important is buying not overpriced products, because you buying whole marketing with all the strange theory.
Serious manufacturers have normal prices.
I did once calculations of approximate costs of productions of hi-end audio cables. In productions they costs really nothing - few zeros lower than the end price.

Thanks for your feedback ln76. It is as I suspected.

However, I have a question about silver-plated wires...silver oxidizes! Look at all the jewelry that needs cleaning on a regular basis...I realize if they are inside an insulation they should be fine, but is the insulation perfectly keeping out O2? 

Looking at conductivity of copper vs. silver, they are VERY close! Just wondering.

Thanks,

Mike

I forgot about oxidizing
I also had to write about it

Not only silver! Copper also oxidizing!
Insulated stranded wires, if they had partial removed isnulation can oxidize also in the insulated section. On solid core wires i didn't notice this.
I have silver solid core bare wire which oxidized in a month.
Silver - usual when oxidize have gold / green raid.
Copper - in first stadium is darker looks like light brown colour. In the last stadium - it's green patina.

This affect on sound too, and on soldering properties, so it's good to have healthy looking wires

Lol thx for sharing.

I guess the insulated silver wires would be fine; copper wires seem to hold up well with insulation.

Come to think of it, some of the great vintage audio gear didn't use esoteric cables...why should I?  I will probably go with a high-quality copper/tin-plated 600v wire I have tons of. Although I might think about the teflon-coated silver plated stranded. But I hear it's a b* to strip.

Stripping ptfe is truly hard, especially thin wires.

Thickness of wires is important - not only in power amps or mains cables.

Not always thicker means better.

It depends on application.

In turntable tonearms proper wire gauge is very important, i've tested that.
When i used thicker wires, sound was much darker than usual and the low frequency response was very weird.
On some headphones also. I had opportunity to compare sennheiser hd600 with original cable and modified one with thicker cable.
Owner of those modified thought, that if he use thicker cables, headphones will sounds better.
Ofcourse sound was much worse, they also lost highs.

I asked about condenser capsules and wire thickness before, but no one wants to share his knowledge

I believe you about the thicker wires and attenuation of the highs, but I'm confused. Not sure why this would be the case. 

This is because capacitance between two (or more) wires is increasing.
On some application it will affect on some not.
For example, turntable moving magnet cartridge has very low signal so you can imagine the rest.
Here's nice calculator:
http://www.ampbooks.com/home/amplifier-calculators/wire-capacitance/
You can check in theory.

Thanks for the link! On the headphones and turntables you repaired, were you having parallel wire runs? In such a case, I would imagine twisting them together would greatly increase the capacitance, since you are putting them exactly into proximity with each other.

I'm learning right now about ideal vs. "real" circuits, including transients and other effects such as stray capacitances. Thanks for sharing!  8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

You have conversion table here.

Click to expand...

Thanks again!