Static Electricity - How is this possible?

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ethan

Administrator
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
1,602
Location
DC
This happens to me almost every day. I come home, get out of my car, and fumble through my keys to find the one that unlocks the door to my humble abode. The key is housed in a neoprene/rubber material, yet I still get shocked when I touch it to the keyhole. I thought at first perhaps I'm touching the metal portion, so repeatedly made sure to only touch the rubber "insulation"; nonetheless, I still get shocked... How is this possible? As funny as this might sound, I've tested for continuity between the key and the rubber, suspecting that maybe it's conductive rubber, but nope, that's not it...
On a few occasions I've gotten zapped really nicely where my whole arm was numb for a few hours.
I understand why one gets shocked when they're shorted to ground, but not why this is happening even when I'm insulated?
I'm confused (not hard to do).
 
Strange problem there.
I hate getting zapped by static elecricity myself.
When I get out of the car I usually grab the door post or something metal on the car when getting out.This way it discharges the potential right away.

Forget about it. :grin:
 
Static electricity is thousands of volts, and can jump the gap. The amount of stored energy is small (and doesnt kill us), but at high potential (voltage). Most likely it is not traveling through the rubber, but around it.
 
a conductor insulated then covered by another conductor.

a human capacitor!

wrap yourself in mylar gift wrap and hold onto a guitar cable and you have the best mic in the world, the U812! :green:
 
http://home.att.net/~waterfront-woods/Articles/Electricity/static.htm
 
Cool Stuff!
Good read.
I've always speculated that insulators were merely materials of extremely high resistance (hence the reason for the original question), but have never been able to find any info that blatantly said so, until that article. Hmmm... Well here's another question... If the shock from static electricity can be up in the thousands of volts, it must also be pretty high instantaneous current draw for it to hurt so much? Thousands of Volts at a fraction of a nanoampere shouldn't be so bad... So, how much current flow is there in an instantaneous shock of static electricity?
 
The keyhole doesn't have to be at ground potential, just lower potential in order to get the volts flowing. This is also how you can get cloud to clound lightning. The same rhing happens to me when I get out of my car if I'm wearing a leather jacket...I get charged up, and as I go to close the door, and 'zap'.

As far as current in a static shock, it's real real real low. But, I imagine it hurts because of the temperature. Think of it as a little lightning bolt, the 'zap' sound that you hear is the the air being heated (just like miniature thunder).

Thats all just a guess though...

Cheers,

Kris
 
Ethan;
Three words
Low Humidity
Triboelectricity

You are up north and the humidity is low now.
This allows electricity from friction "Triboelectricity"
to work very well as the charges built up from Triboelectricity
as we move are not blead off by high humidity.
 
"Insulators" always conduct. But mostly the world divides into high-conductance (metals, salt-water) and low-conductance (dry wood, glass). The difference is many-millions to one. "Semi-conductors" stood out because they fall in between (though a thin well-doped semiconductor will carry a lot of current).

One problem with insulators is that our world is full of conductive crap. Sweaty finger grime is a popular contaminant on insulators. A think layer of salt-grime is not a great conductor, but it is at least as good as your body, which is all you care about.

Another problem is that electricity will jump through air if you push hard enough. You need big insulators to stop big voltages.

In dry air, your body can accumulate maybe 20,000 volts charge. (This will jump nearly 1/4", much further than the thickness of a typical key-rubber.)

The capacitance of your body to the universe is around 100pFd.

Skin resistance at low voltages is normally 10K-100K, but in ESD testing it is conventional to use 1K5. This 100pFd 1K5 model has been around for over a century (a spark in a coal-mine full of gas is explosive). There are other models, but this one seems to be appropriate for KV charges and general estimation of spark behavior.

Assume the doorknob has a low resistance (much lower than 1K5) path to ground or a large object (much more than 100pFd to the universe).

20,000 volts across 1K5 is 13 Amps.

20,000 volts and 13 amps is around a quarter million Watts. In a small area of the finger!

The time-constant of 100pFd and 1K5 is 0.15 microseconds. So that quarter-MegaWatt is down to an eigth-MegaWatt in less than 1/6,000,000 seconds. If you stretched the shock over a whole second, it would average something like 0.050 Watts for one second, way too small to notice.

My gal once worked on nylon carpet around metal cabinets. I made her a shock-ring: a 1-Meg 1/2-Watt resistor on a crackerjack ring. She touched the far end of the resistor to the cabinet first, and the charge was dissipated at the rate of about 20,000V/1Meg= 20 milliAmps, not Amps. The time-constant was under a milliSecond so even the quickest flick was enough to drain most of the charge. If your problem is a steel door (high capacitance and/or a direct path to general ground) you could screw a 1Meg resistor into the face of the door and brush that before you aim the key at the lock. Or you could build a 1Meg resistor into a key-like dongle: hold that and brush the door with the end before you go for the key.

It may also help to anti-stat your car seats, nylon parka, any carpet along your path. In some of our offices I have to anti-stat the carpets each winter so ESD does not lock-up keyboards when people shuffle and sit. There is magic spray for this. There is also spray for silk stockings and slips to keep your panties from getting in a bunch, and this works on carpets. But the cheapest trick is liquid fabric softener ("Downey" or ShopRite equivalent) mixed about 1:20 with water and misted with an old Windex bottle. What these really do is hold some atmospheric water in the fabric or carpet so charges drain much faster than they do in bone-dry air. Don't use too much or it gets slippery and slimey. And when air gets REALLY dry they can't do much. But in your Mid-Atlantic area there is always a little water in the air, you just have to make some of it stick to the fabric.

As an extreme trick, find a car grounding strap. This is conductive rubber clamped to the car so it drags on the ground. It was very common in the 1950s when the early nylon upholstery would zap you every time you slid out of the seat. It bypasses the high resistance of the tires. But I have not seen one in years. In fact the last time I saw one, I was putting it on a PC cart to keep the cart drained to the carpet, and that was 1986.
 
[quote author="PRR"]My gal once worked on nylon carpet around metal cabinets. I made her a shock-ring: a 1-Meg 1/2-Watt resistor on a crackerjack ring. She touched the far end of the resistor to the cabinet first, and the charge was dissipated at the rate of about 20,000V/1Meg= 20 milliAmps, not Amps.[/quote]

You Romantic dog you! :grin:
I think I just figured out what I'm gettin' mine for V-day!
I'll get her a reel of a 1000, 20 Meg resistors, an keep a few handy for myself :cool:

Cool information though, I never realized that "static elec" could be that high up there. Then again, I've had shocks from touching my door knob that were far worse than that one time I accidentally touched a B+ line.
 
> I've had shocks from touching my door knob that were far worse than that one time I accidentally touched a B+ line.

Yes, and after pondering I see why.

The "low voltage" body resistance IS on the order of 10K and up. So 100 Volts forces about 10mA to flow.

But when you have 10,000+ Volts, the skin is too thin to stop the voltage. Note that to hold-in the 10KV-50KV sparks in a car ignition system we use very thick rubber, much thicker than the dry outer layer of the skin. Voltage punches right though the thin layer. The inside of your body, including the underlying layers of skin, is just a bag of salt-water with some impurities. Resistance through the wet parts of the body is a few K ohms. The 10K ohms observed with low-voltage is only true up to a thousand volts or so. Above that the voltage just punches through the thin dead dry skin layer, and you see more like 1K5 resistance.

So with 100V applied you get about 0.010 Amps. 400V might be 0.040 Amps. With 20,000V on tap, you get about 10 Amps! While the duration is very-very-very short, the peak current is far higher than you get in a light socket or guitar-amp.

BTW: the problem is that YOU are charged-up. So even if your sweetheart opens the door so you don't touch the knob, you will still get shocked on the first large conductive object you touch. Refrigerator door, lover's lips, toilet handle. You gotta dissipate sometime. You are probably getting a charge from car-seat or nylon jacket or carpet, and getting built-up faster than you naturally self-discharge in dry air. You could just stand around, not touching any good conductor, until you drain, but that can be many-many minutes in dry air. A poor conductor will bleed you faster without a high peak current, but not too many common household objects have the right resistance.

If you have a dry wood railing before the door, try holding that for a minute. If it isn't dry enough, it may sting; if really-dry it might not discharge fast enough to be useful.

> This happens to me almost every day.

EVERY day? Or just in winter? Like the last week or so?

Your complaint comes after the first prolonged cold-snap in this part of the world. It's been cold long enough to drop much of the humidity out of outdoor air (and most US indoor air is over-heated and over-dry). I would not expect shocks in the US East any time from April to October: it is too darn muggy to hold a carge for long. If you are getting summer shocks, something is very odd. Don't wear silk panties and a wool sweater while you rub the cat.

This year we got a new ramp on the building, all that "plastic lumber" stuff. For some reason, walking up that and touching the metal door was giving me a zap, even in late summer humidity. Yet now it does not. I wonder if it was a surface effect that wore off. Or if it depends which jacket I wear.
 
i have a lot of statics in my studio during winter, especially when it's freezing outside (=very low humidity)
Sometimes you actually see the sparks jumping from my fingertips when i touch grounded gear. Never knew it was that much of volts buildup :shock:
The only remedie is to swap the studiofloor with some humid cloth to wipe of the statics. I also have the car problem a lot and hold the door bfore getting out, that takes away most of the problem.
Every now and then, the misses get a firm hit when we touch as well. After 23 years, still sparkling love, isn't that beautyful? :grin:
 
But the cheapest trick is liquid fabric softener ("Downey" or ShopRite equivalent) mixed about 1:20 with water and misted with an old Windex bottle. What these really do is hold some atmospheric water in the fabric or carpet so charges drain much faster than they do in bone-dry air. Don't use too much or it gets slippery and slimey.
This trick has been around for a long time but I would not advise using it for a couple of reasons... the most important being that the anti-stat ingredients are quaternary ammonium chloride compounds and are corrosive to metal - quite corrosive, so I would not like to expose any of my expensive gear to those chemicals.

The aerosol sprays made specifically for this use - Static Guard and such - use quats too but with a slightly different composition (made from different starting material) and also have corrosion inhibitors included in the solution (they obviously cannot corrode the metal cans), so are much safer to use around electronics. There is a private label anti-stat spray at Wal-Mart that is $0.88 per can... cleaner, neater and suited for this application :grin: :green:

regards, Jack
 
some of you might want and go to my local Tesco super mega superstore as they have had a nightmare with static electricity in the Pharamacy come toileteries department
The rest of the store is fine (normal flooring) BUT the pharamacy is wooden flooring - everybody gets a zap when they reach onto the metal shelves or accidentally touch their metal trolley
I "ground" myself before walking into the area but touching the metal of the trolley and not the plastic handle
they have spent thousands trying to sort it - to no avail
 
Back
Top