Liability issues

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[silent:arts] said:
there is just no "safe way" for a DIY seller ...

it is not that easy and expensive to sue outside your country - might be a way: only do private sales outside your country.

I gave up on this topic.

Paying insurance for all possibilities?
You would need to add this to your sales price.
Still in the DIY range? no!

I am not a legal but, if I remeber fine, is possible to insert on sale conditions, that, in case of legal disputes, the competent court is that of seller's country.

However, I am thinking on tube DIY gears,  liability issues are a problem. I these months I have designed a tube preamp, I have intention to put it in the market, but reading this posts I have just changed idea !! 

It work at 200VDC, is not a big power voltage, because it  has ECC88's,  but it is however a potentially dangerous voltage.   

 
I would like to propose that we might make a list of the conditions of sale to use this forum to sell products.

Liability issues are a bit a problem for diy world. It is common problem, and like common problem should be addressed, with team spirit, in my modest opinion.  If we are saying of DIY spirit.

Just free contributions as we are doing in this thread.

DIY should be fun for all.

 
i think this is absurd.
Gus with all due respect, you shouldnt make fellow diy sellers fear like they are terrorist or whatever.
As far i remember no one knows whats offering DIY untill you really offer something.


thanks.

 
This only took two pages before devolving into ad hominum.

It is a difficult issue .

I would prioritize worrying about not killing customers over worrying about personal liability, but it all matters.

Perhaps a thread about best practices when dealing with dangerous voltages, but even doing that opens up a can of worms.

Caveat lector, caveat emptor... caveat caveat

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
This only took two pages before devolving into ad hominum.

It is a difficult issue .

I would prioritize worrying about not killing customers over worrying about personal liability, but it all matters.

Perhaps a thread about best practices when dealing with dangerous voltages, but even doing that opens up a can of worms.

Caveat lector, caveat emptor... caveat caveat

JR

is the thing I have intention to write on my next post.

However, a DIY forum should instruct to menbers on these things  ;)

 
3nity said:
i think this is absurd.
Gus with all due respect, you shouldnt make fellow diy sellers fear like they are terrorist or whatever.
As far i remember no one knows whats offering DIY untill you really offer something.


thanks.


WOW
I ask a simple question. 
 
JohnRoberts said:
sahib said:
We supply 511 psu as a kit with 3rd party components. Therefore we are effectively supplying components not a built product.
Not sure I understand the legal distinction.
JR

John,

We are simply purchasing off-the-shelf components from  suppliers and re-supplying them to the purchaser to put it together using his/her knowledge. Therefore it would be no different than trying to sue RS, Farnell etc for supllying the goods. If the user suffered loss or damage, say due to mulfunctioning switch then the claim would be directed straight to the manufacturer.

But if we supply the equipment in question fully built as a plug and play unit then the buck stops at us. We then have to sue the switch manufacturer.

However, as I mentioned before there is a much greater risk in giving information and advice here in terms of risk assesment.


Hey 3nity,

Indeed Gus has just asked a question. That's all.
 
It seems the more of an 'instruction manual' one puts together, the more one is on the hook.  It's a quandary. 
 
ppa said:
BTW the best weapon against legal problems is  not killing customers
Or maybe the opposite..  ;D

JohnRoberts said:
This only took two pages before devolving into ad hominum.
Sorry for being pedantic.. its "ad hominem".  :)
 
Gus said:
3nity said:
i think this is absurd.
Gus with all due respect, you shouldnt make fellow diy sellers fear like they are terrorist or whatever.
As far i remember no one knows whats offering DIY untill you really offer something.


thanks.


WOW
I ask a simple question.

Here's my contract with myself as a DIY'er,

                                            DIYer's Contract to self

" I hereby release all providers of DIY projects from all liability due to my incompetence or stupidity, or any reason for that matter. I realize I build at my own risk. I am fully aware that i am  astonishingly lucky to be afforded the ability, by the generosity of some very creative fellows, to own previously unobtainable and legendary kits of the pro audio industry. I understand that the responsibility for the safety of myself my family and my property are mine and mine alone.
    Furthermore, I understand, if anyone pursues DIY kit creators in any legal manner WHAT SO EVER!, it becomes incumbent upon me personally, and legally, to hunt down, smoke out and eviscerate the ingrates who would dare to desecrate this sanctum, or incumber, compromise or deny me, or any good DIY folks the ability to enjoy the incredible opportunities offered within this forum." :mad:

X____________________
tonycamp

witnesses, God himself
;D
 
1954U1 said:
JohnRoberts said:
This only took two pages before devolving into ad hominum.
Sorry for being pedantic.. its "ad hominem".  :)

Since I tend toward pedantry, I appreciate the correction. My spell checker doesn't correct Latin words, and I never excelled at vocabulary when I studied latin in the 9th grade (was that 4th declension or 5th?).

I guess i should google words the spell checker doesn't know, but I know what it means, apparently just not how to spell it.  ;D

JR




 
Yeah , get it together man , and everyone take a fuse , o.k. ?

or is that blow one  , or your top or I dunno ask Billy gibbons

No easy answer , but it would be nice to get ahead instead of back peddling trying to make a living
so , how do we work Religion into the conversation , ha !

And easy wit dem big words
 
> The corporate veil an LLC provides is pretty thin, especially for single-members

Single/small ownership corporations in general.

Near here, a seafood corporation quit paying their bills, including dock-rental to the town. The town went to court, showed the corporation was one guy, that he put corporate money directly in his personal accounts.... judge found that he was *personally* liable for the debts of the corporation.

Naturally his lawyer will argue otherwise, yada-yada, and in the end there's no blood in this turnip (or he would still be doing business and paying bills).
 
Rochey said:
I have a greater concern regarding an individual suing us than a government agency at this point.
Frankly, these agencies are already overstretched going after the big guys.

In terms of self protection, we took steps to become an LLC recently.

I'm told (and would love someone to tell me if this is true or false) that the LLC protects all my personal assets from being taken should the company be sued.

Very thin indeed.  Even with a full corporation, and even if the "corporate veil" is not proven to be pierced.  LLC should have liability insurance such that principles in the LLC are 130% protected.  That covers you through some growth.  In NYS it is about $500 per mil per year in coverage when "selling electronic equipment that other people connect to their equipment" and "location repair of electronic equipment".

It's well worth the cost.

Mike
 
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