Melted Pinch Roller - Studer A827

I've read about it, but wouldn't have believed it until today.

Our A827 hasn't been used heavily in just over a year and the pinch roller totally melted all over the machine.  Must have just happened, I cleaned the machine a few months back and periodically dust it, and it wasn't like this.  It's like a weird greenish goop.  No alcohol or anything I know of came into contact with it, but I've read that this can happen - the machine is nearly 19 years old, so I guess...

Terry's rubber rollers is your friend. He might need the old rollers to use the brass centre. This does happen to old Studer rollers. Kind of freaky when it happens.

I had it happen to an 807 roller.  It went in less than a month. 

In a month from totally good to totally bad?  C r a z y...

Yeah, it was fine, then I went to use it a month later and it was a gummy bear on the brass hub.  I put it in a bag and another month later it had totally run off the hub into a pool. 

Haha nuts.  Ok, well that does actually make me feel better.  We had recently repainted the control room, and I was getting worried there was something in the air that I wasn't aware of...seriously freaked me out.

Thanks!
Sig

good thing you caught it, mine melted but i did not notice until after the running tape carried the goop all over the pinch rollers, capstan, recording head, so i clean everything and forget that there is still goop on the tape, round 2 begins,

big nightmare for such a little problem,

I've never used Terry's Rollers as I have not needed a roller yet that I could not get from George at Athan. 
Mike

It's not as uncommon as you may think. Pretty much every old Philips reel to reel recorder I have from the 1960s exhibit  the idlers and belts turning to gum. It must be something to do with the rubber formulation; it seems to de-polymerize after a number of years.

http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/curing.html

How many of you have purchased a used Ampex, Norelco, Philips or

> > other Tape deck only to find it did not work when you got it

> > because the Rubber components have melted down to a Tar like

> > substance? I have restored many consumer Ampex machines because of

> > this problem. A bulletin I got from Ampex stated this was caused by

> > improper "Curing" of the rubber product. It seems many Rubber Belts

> > & Idler wheels were made overseas and were not made to spec.

>

> Aha! That would explain the apparent random experiences I have

> encountered with 'gooification' of rubber. I spent a bit of time

> discussing this matter with a guy who refurbed by X-10R recently. WE

> renewed all rubber just in case although it looked and felt OK. He

> showed me a couple of identical decks of his own where one deck's

> rubber was original and just fine, while the other's had gone to goo.

======================================================

: "retiredradiodj" <NiteOwlDJ1@a...>

Date: Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:46 am

Subject: More on Melting Rubber.

Some of the Decks I have worked on had their rubber components

melt down, others were fine. The Curing of the rubber (baking, Heat

treatment) sometimes was cut short by the manufacturer acording to an

Australian bulletin I once received with an old Magnecord that was

manufactured in Australia. (some Maggies were made in that country)

They had a re-call on some of them that had their idler wheels turn

to soft spongy like rubber. The Rubber would peel off the metal hubs

like bubble gum. The Pinch rollers were OK as they used the ones made

here in the states. Acording to the writer, the "Curing" process

involves placing the finished rubber parts in some kind of liquid for

several days, then Baking them at a certain temperatures, and if this

was not done properly, the chemical break down over a period of years

would begin, thus the meltdown of the rubber. I have heard of other

instances of the rubber components having additives causing this

problem also. I had one of those Ampex consumer decks that I managed

to get to just before the meltdown began. I removed the drive belt,

which normally is about 18 or 20 inches long, and stretched it out to

almost 12 feet before it broke. I then rolled it into a ball and set

it on a shelf in my workshop and forgot about it for about a year.

I noticed a black drip of what looked like black paint on top of a

Seeburg Jukebox Mechanism cover I had on the bench that I was

cleaning, and noticed the string of black goo coming from the shelf

where I placed that rolled up Ampex belt. It had completly melted

down and dripped off the shelf. Luckily it cleaned off the plastic

cover ok. I even heard stories about Aircraft tires in storrage for a

long time go bad. They blow up like baloons and burst through the

plys like hundreds of small bubbles. I'll even bet the blowout of

good car tires was caused by this problem. I had an english bicycle

in my garage for the last 20 years that eventually gave out to this

problem. Scraping the goo off the rims was an all day job.

I had two Gates CB-200 Broadcast turntables where one had the Goo

problem, and the other did'nt. Don't figure..?

Chuck.

\=====================================================

"retiredradiodj" <NiteOwlDJ1@a...>

Date: Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:38 pm

Subject: Melted Rubber Idlers & Belts

I  have restored many consumer Ampex machines because of this problem. A

bulletin I got from Ampex stated this was caused by improper "Curing"

of the rubber product. It seems many Rubber Belts & Idler wheels were

made overseas and were not made to spec. I even had this happen to

the Pinch Rollers on my Scully 280-B decks. Removing the Goo is a

Pain in the *?*, but I found that Paint Thinner removes the black goo

quite easily. Lighter fluid works also, but purchasing the Paint

thinner is a lot cheaper then the Ronsonol. I still and will continue

to use Ronsonol for cleaning the Heads on my Tape Decks. I clean the

Idler drives with Vita-Drive, the Capstan Rubber pinch roller with

Alcohol, and give the Heads a final wipe with Alcohol, then a Dry Q-

tip. I have a mayonaise jar filled with Black goo that once was

several Drive Belts & rubber Tires from old Tape recorders. Anyone

interested in some Roofing cement? Chuck.

========================================================

"stops142" <stops142@y...>

Date: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:32 pm

Subject: Re: Melted Rubber Idlers & Belts

Yep, if you need rollers rebuilt, head on over to Terry's place. He'll

fix'em up for you real good. It's worth to cost of the rebuild to keep

our "dinosaurs" alive and tickin'. Between Terry and his rubber

factory and Joe's Head stockroom store, we can keep our "dinosaurs"

from being extinct.

thx Monte

That reads like Morse Code so it is all the more clear.
Mike

For me, it used to be that many rubber pinch rollers would turn into "granite".  But, in the past 20 years, it's been them turning into goo.

I first ran into that with the rubber coated capstan on two Otari MTR-90 MK III machines in perhaps the mid 1990's...one machine in Tulsa, and the other here in OKC.  Both machines were close to the same age from the early 1990's.  As everyone may recall, the Otari's were pinch-roller-less, but the capstan had a large rubber-coated drum attached.

The owner of the Tulsa machine called me first, and I contacted Otari's service dept.  They were aware of the problem, and they suggested using an Athan replacement vs. an Otari <!!!!>.

Within months, the MTR-90 where I was working developed the same problem.  The machine was in daily use, and one week it was fine.  The next week, "something" was going wrong.  We could heard these odd "smack smack" sounds coming from the capstan, and it felt "odd' to the touch.  We ordered an Athan 2nd Day and we barely kept going before it arrived.

We set that "drum" on a piece of cardboard on my workbench, and with a few months, nearly all of the dark gray/black "rubber" had "drained" off the underlying aluminum drum, into a pool of glop on the cardboard!!

Since then, I've seen the problem on ancient PR-99 decks, and this past spring, on a relatively "new" Studer 827, and various machines with ages in between.

Athan seems to be a great supplier, but I've heard folks saying that Terry's service is good and less expensive.

Like sticky-shed tape, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the future brings with these various replacements.

Bri

melted pinch roller would indicate that you or your assistant may have accidentally cleaned the pinch roller with isopropyl or some other chemical used to clean tape machines. Pinch rollers should hardly be cleaned and only with rubber cleaner

AFAIK  here on OKC....not in the Tulsa studio since I was not there....

NO voodoo chemicals on the roller here in OKC.

Otarii tech support TOLD ME there was 'bad rubber''.  Told me to call Athan.

Bri\

Those old pinch roller rubbers and belts melt all the time. THEY ARE OLD. Anyone with an old tape deck should replace the rubber if you have never before. It will stick to the tape and ruin it! It is not alcohol for cleaning the heads. They can stand many years of that.

It is old age!

John

Oddly, the Otari MTR machine was relatively new at the time, a $50K+ purchase at the time era....

The rubber melted.

Otati SERVICE DEPARTMENT said "OOOPS!"

Otari SERVICE said "buy an Athan".

<shrug>

Bri

pucho812 said:

melted pinch roller would indicate that you or your assistant may have accidentally cleaned the pinch roller with isopropyl or some other chemical used to clean tape machines. Pinch rollers should hardly be cleaned and only with rubber cleaner

Click to expand...

That is just another internet perpetuated myth. Pinch rollers are rarely made of rubber, especially not the ones that go on Studer tape machines. Cleaning them with rubber cleaner is worse than cleaning them with isopropyl alcohol which incidentally, will not hurt them. It is exposure to oxygen that causes to the pinch roller to decompose, not someone's improper cleaning. Studer suggests cleaning the pinch roller with water. I use water and/or diluted Formula 409 and rinse later. Cleaning too much won't really hurt the pinch roller but it does make it so sticky that it adheres a bit to the tape and makes quite a clatter until it dirties up a bit. Clean on with your bad self.
Charlie Bolois
Studer Technical

Hey Pucho - no cleaning of the roller was done.  I'm the only guy that touches the machine, no assistants here.  It's been well documented that what happened to our roller is common and does indeed happen quite a bit.

Can anyone recommend the newer polyurethane ones over getting one redone by Terry's Rubbers?  I'm told the newer ones are superior and the poly lasts forever, but I've read the tension isn't the asme as the original ones and the machine needs to be calibrated.  New bearings obviously on a new one, which could also be good.

Would love some advice ASAP on which I should do.  A new one is $400 - Terry's about half that price.

Thanks!
Sig

Michael Spitz at ATR just got  back to me - they have a completely different type of roller for $425 that is "precision ground for maximum performance."  He also said "The issue with the roller you have is that it is made of urethane and urethane easily melts due to hydrolysis.  Ours is made of dimensionally stabile rubber which does not fall apart or become sticky over the years.  Our roller works well even in tropical humidity."

All very interesting, but making the decision even more difficult now... :-\