Dear all,

I'm not pleased with being stuck with the results of recording through my outboard gear.  I'd like to be able to be flexible and loop out to my outboard gear and record the results. My current setup is Korby Audio modified U-87-neve 1064 w/ eq - la2a - 1176 - apogee duet. I could use the Duet but it outputs to 1/4" L&R or 1/4" stereo headphone outputs. The headphone outputs are balanced, correct? So, could I get a balanced 1/4" cable to xlr to go into my compressor for example and then back in to record the results? Or is this a problem because the compressor alone doesn't have a pre amp in it?  I guess I could go back into the neve but then this is double pre amping.  Or I could record the Nuemann with the Duet preamp and color after the fact? If I can't do this, what audio interface converter should I get.  I only need a few inputs because I just record vocals. THank you for your advice.


abechap024

Headphone outs are unbalanced. You would need a stereo to mono type adapter to use your headphone outs.
You probably want to use the 1/4" outputs you speak of, those are probably balanced.

What do you mean by "Compressor doesn't have a pre-amp in it" ? I just want to understand your terminology because something isn't being understood.

A "Preamp" is usually used when interfaceing a microphone, something that needs 40db or so gain.

You'lll want to use the line level inputs on your unit.

Hopefully the 1/4" out and the headphone outputs are separate so you can monitor what your doing to the audio with your outboard gear. There is a workaround but this would be the preferable method. (the work around being you send the outputs of your analog equipment to speakers and then when you like the sound you record back into your computer).

In ProTools you can just make analog inserts that treat the analog ins/outs essentially like a plug in.

AC Sound - some DIY circuitboards

Headphone outs are unbalanced. You would need a stereo to mono type adapter to use your headphone outs.
You probably want to use the 1/4" outputs you speak of, those are probably balanced.
O.K.  Thank you.

What do you mean by "Compressor doesn't have a pre-amp in it" ? I just want to understand your terminology because something isn't being understood.
What I mean is, I have been tracking going from my mic into the Neve, into two compressors and then into the Duet for A/D conversion. If I I'm trying to get a vox track into the computer, I can bypass the way I've been doing it and use the Duet's mic pre which ain't bad at all or just use the Neve. Then take what I recorded and somehow reroute it out of the computer via the Duet into my outboard gear compressors.  But if I take that vox track and get it to pass through the comps don't I need the Neve first to boost the signal coming out of the Duet before entering the comp chain? And if I did so, wouldn't that be double Pre-amping if I had originally used the Neve just to track?

A "Preamp" is usually used when interfaceing a microphone, something that needs 40db or so gain.

You'lll want to use the line level inputs on your unit.
So, line out of the Duet into the line in of the Neve and then onto the comps? Will the comps take line level? I'm not certain which
"unit" you referenced to.

Hopefully the 1/4" out and the headphone outputs are separate so you can monitor what your doing to the audio with your outboard gear. There is a workaround but this would be the preferable method. (the work around being you send the outputs of your analog equipment to speakers and then when you like the sound you record back into your computer).

I don't think so but I'm not certain. The 1/4" outs on the back of the Duet are typically used for powered studio monitors. I could use those to get the signal to my outboard gear, I guess. 

In ProTools you can just make analog inserts that treat the analog ins/outs essentially like a plug in.

I'm using Logic 9.  So, I need to do some homework on this.  If I can't do this with the Duet, what is a good interface? I don't need 8 ins and outs.  But I realize I may have to get one with that many because they don't make smaller ones, do they - of high quality? I do not plan pn upgrading my computer (Mac PowerBook Pro). It has fire wire and from what I'm reading, USB3 may become the standard therefore making older FW only interfaces more affordable. 

plumsolly

But if I take that vox track and get it to pass through the comps don't I need the Neve first to boost the signal coming out of the Duet before entering the comp chain?
No. The Duet spits out line level. The compressors eats line level.

So, line out of the Duet into the line in of the Neve and then onto the comps?
Yes, assuming you want to the use the EQ.

Will the comps take line level?
Yes.

I'm not certain which "unit" you referenced to.
The compressors only have line inputs. The Neve has mic and line inputs. Use the the Mic input with a mic (or DI). Use the line input with anything else - signal from your converter, signal from any other outboard, etc.

Best,

Ben

Seems like your trying to use the Duet as a mixer? It's not designed to interface/mix with outboard; obviously, you need a mixer to use outboard while 'mixing'...or at least some sophisticated, ad/da setup. ie: Pro tools HD.

If i were you, i'd focus on gettings 'good sounds/performances' with your mic placement/outboard in the tracking stage.
Then you could use 'selective' ITB compression....while going out to a master stereo compressor.

I have my master compressor on all the time(portico 5043) on the monitors. I adjust it and my tracking compressor for the best sound right away. I try to get a finished sound in the tracking stage...

Even after you get a sound your satisfied with before tracking it...there's still getting a good performance.  :)  Anyway, after all the performance is done....then you can go back and mix/automate rides, etc....through the outboard master compressor again to achieve your end result(my master recorder; tascam dv-ra1000, is between the master compressor and the monitors). This is the method i'm currently using for DAW, and it seems to work ok.

Having brand name x gear doesn't guarantee good results. The results are in maximizing the use of it in your given situation.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 04:57:01 PM by desol »

Seems like your trying to use the Duet as a mixer? It's not designed to interface/mix with outboard; obviously, you need a mixer to use outboard while 'mixing'...or at least some sophisticated, ad/da setup. ie: Pro tools HD.
I have learned that you are correct.  That's why I'm now looking at the new Duet 2 which I'm under the impression will allow my to loop out to and from my outboard gear. I'm also looking at an Apogee Ensemble and Symphony.  Albeit, I don't need high in/out count but I'm in the info gathering stage of this process.

If i were you, I'd focus on getting 'good sounds/performances' with your mic placement/outboard in the tracking stage.
Then you could use 'selective' ITB compression....while going out to a master stereo compressor.


I 100% agree on this - especially finding that mic sweet spot placement. I never thought about putting a comp before my monitors. This makes me think I could crack open my old chest and spool up the T.C. Electronic Finalizer for that.  I could go AES/EBU out of the Symphony or Ensemble if I decide to spend more than the Duet 2 costs.  Thanks for the thought.  I have so much lying around doing nothing that I don't want to give away including a T.C. Electronic M3000 which I personally enjoy listening to.  I used to use it as a A/D, it sounded pretty darn good imo. You see, I'd like to have a system that's not overkill in the in/out dept. that will allow me to use this stuff I have.  Most importantly, I'd like to use my Neve's E.Q. section while doing a final mix.  I haven't been using the E.Q. at all during tracking because, well, I just don't know what will need to be boosted or cut till I'm at the end of mixing stage. 

I have my master compressor on all the time(portico 5043) on the monitors. I adjust it and my tracking compressor for the best sound right away. I try to get a finished sound in the tracking stage...

 I believe in getting it right on the way in and not relying on the old adage "fix it in the mix", too.  That's why I was using two comps on the way in in the first place. 

Even after you get a sound your satisfied with before tracking it...there's still getting a good performance.  :)  Anyway, after all the performance is done....then you can go back and mix/automate rides, etc....through the outboard master compressor again to achieve your end result(my master recorder; Tascam dv-ra1000, is between the master compressor and the monitors). This is the method I'm currently using for DAW, and it seems to work o.k.

 Cool way of doing things.  Tell me, if I got a bigger Audio Interface AD/DA setup, couldn't I use what ever it is I get to send the signal out to hit my Finalizer and then record the out of it into Logic 9? Or better yet, would I!? 

Having brand name x gear doesn't guarantee good results. The results are in maximizing the use of it in your given situation.

Again, I agree.  Unfortunately I'm in the category of those who don't know much but are fortunate to have a few nice pieces to help balance the scale and make up for what I don't know, hopefully.  For example, I can't tell you how many recordings I have made where the Neve pre makes my voice and others too sit perfectly in the mix without tweaking a thing. 

It has become clear to me that I need another Audio Interface AD/DA.  I have spent three hours reading here and on other forums about the pros and cons.  Without starting a digression, I'd like to ask for feedback on what would suffice my needs without overkill.  I mainly track vocals.  I have some nice pieces I'd like to use in the mixing stage and for bouncing the final wave file. At this point I was reading about the Apogee Duet2, Ensemble and Symphony.  I also started learning about the UAD Apollo.  It appears the Duet 2 could be perfect with it's ability to loop out and back in.  Thoughts, please?

That's the thing. Personally, i don't enjoy the 'sound' of bouncing a mix inside of, or out of and back into, the computer.
I prefer external hardware for mixdown. I got lucky, and picked up the Tascam DSD recorder for $300...but even an old DAT would work good.

It's kind of a hit 'n miss thing, imo, to fuss with looping out to outboard then back in with a small interface when mixing... Latency is too much of an issue for me personally. In order to do this you need good DSP, plenty of i/o's and latency compensation ie: Protools HD to even attempt to get close to the sound of simply using a cheap analog mixer. :?

So, in other words...i only use outboard compression for tracking and mixdown...and use a small amount of control plugin compression....when 'mixing. That's basically how i approach using outboard with the DAW.

I have an MBOX 3rd gen(for personal stuff)...and a FOSTEX DV2424lv for multitrack work.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 08:19:00 PM by desol »

That's the thing. Personally, i don't enjoy the 'sound' of bouncing a mix inside of, or out of and back into, the computer.
I prefer external hardware for mixdown. I got lucky, and picked up the Tascam DSD recorder for $300...but even an old DAT would work good.
OK Cool idea.  So if I want to do this I have to look into A/D conversion and clocking issues.  This is leads me to the fact that I have an Audinate Dante Card in my Yamaha DM1000's mini_YGDAI slot #2 with Dante Controller and Dante Virtual Soundcard running on my MBP/Logic 9. Perhaps I can go this route if i get a good external Clock.

It's kind of a hit 'n miss thing, imo, to fuss with looping out to outboard then back in with a small interface when mixing... Latency is too much of an issue for me personally. In order to do this you need good DSP, plenty of i/o's and latency compensation ie: Protools HD to even attempt to get close to the sound of simply using a cheap analog mixer. :?
Latency doesn't bother me because I know there is a way to measure it and make adjustments easily in Logic.

So, in other words...i only use outboard compression for tracking and mixdown...and use a small amount of control plugin compression....when 'mixing. That's basically how i approach using outboard with the DAW.
With the amount of outboard gear I have with Digital ins and outs, I'm leaning to this paradigm.  I'm HOPING that with Dante's PTP setup I can stay digital after the Duet (one)'s A/D conversion and just go out of the Yamaha in a line level therefore bypassing the negative effects of the Yamaha's pre amps.  I Have read that line level signals don't get bothered too much and that external word clocking dramatically improves the sound of the yamaha pres.

I have an MBOX 3rd gen(for personal stuff)...and a FOSTEX DV2424lv for multitrack work.
I'll look into these too.  THanks.

No problem. Everybody's method is good, if you can get the results you like.

If i could have a 24 channel API desk with a tape/protools setup and a great live room with a bunch of killer mics....
well, that'd be that.

 

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