What's wrong with Vintech x73

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rich

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
84
I've heard a couple people say on this board that the Vintech 1073 clone sounded poorly, why? And why will the forums current clone project be any better than the Vintech?
 
[quote author="rich"] ... that the Vintech 1073 clone sounded poorly, why?[/quote]
why ?
good question
it has been said on other forums too
people say a lot of things on forums

never seen one,
so I've never tried one
so I can't help here


[quote author="rich"] And why will the forums current clone project be any better than the Vintech?[/quote]

the forums ... this forum ?
are you refering to the DIY81 ... or the other verious Neve 1272 styled projects ?

:shock:
better .... ???

:cool:
my DIY is best
:green:
it's that simple

:roll:
Steff make s a good box too .... and so does Frank
....
.. and Fabio ... Chris .... and the Peters
ok, I guess there are a few cool boxes out there

BUT

mine are still ... The Best
:razz:
... and my next DIY project will be even better ... always
 
[quote author="Kev"]


[quote author="rich"] And why will the forums current clone project be any better than the Vintech?[/quote]

the forums ... this forum ?
are you refering to the DIY81 ... or the other verious Neve 1272 styled projects ?

:shock:
better .... ???

:cool:
my DIY is best
:green:
it's that simple

:roll:
Steff make s a good box too .... and so does Frank
....
.. and Fabio ... Chris .... and the Peters
ok, I guess there are a few cool boxes out there

BUT

mine is still ... The Best
:razz:[/quote]

Yes this forum and specifically the 1081 clone that is going on right now. I've heard Soundguy Dave a couple of times refer to the Vintech x73 as not sounding very good, yet this forums 1081 project uses the same transformers and inductors as the Vintech. Just curious? :roll:
 
please find the thread. I remember the compressor one but not one about the Vintech 1073.
 
I guess we will let you know when we are finished.

The Neve units did have transformer changes during the life of manufacture and Geoff T. can probably tell us what really happened during those years.

The group buy of transformers is what we have many of the rest of the components will be chosen by their builders and so there will be some differences.

Impossible to answer the question directly except to say ... mine is best ... cos I made it.

this is DIY
 
I don't think anyone's ever said flat out that their's is better than a commercially available unit (except Kev above :wink:) What sounds good or bad or better or worse is just a matter of opinion, not "wrong" or "right". For instance I detest the sound of 1176's (yes all of 'em) and U47s (yup I said it!).

But by DIYing something, you have the option to go all out with rotary switches where the manufacturer may have used cheap pots, better quality connectors, more expensive esoteric capacitors, resistors, better wiring, better layout. Not to mention alter the original design to suit your needs. If it's something I am capable of building, then I will, because I WILL build it better and spare no expense in doing it right--although the woman of the house might object to the 'spare no expense' part. At least that's one side of DIY. The other side is: I'm Po', I've got some resistors a few capacitors and bubble gum, what can I build? :shock:
 
I have a X73i. Sounds freakin' awesome if you ask me.... AND I have used all clones out there....
 
soundguy



Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1532
Location: NYC, USA
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject:

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anyone not really familiar with neve attempting to do this on different switches is really brave, talk about taking about the most complicated thing and making it more complicated. Of course it can be done, but its a ton of more work. Greyhills I wouldnt expect to be all worlds cheaper, and theyy'll be just as hard to source.

Scenaria, I have a x73i, thats definitely the way this one should have went in a lot of ways, going with a multi bank pcb grayhill would have saved lots of trouble and would have been cheaper and easier and not sounded any different, not authentic though, so... The x73i pretty much sucks though, but thats a different conversation. But the switches and pcb mount are not the issue with that box, it was a smart move.

how many of us are there ordering these in the USA? Me and scenaria and whom else? If we could pay the vat on one shipment, that would be great. Im guessing that US folks *WILL* be paying the VAT since Jon is getting them all in Europe and then shipping out to us as opposed to the manufacturer sending them direct to the US...

After spending all this money, Im gonna be PISSED if I cant get mine working, dauntaing to think about...

dave
_________________

chips are good with dip...

Here's one quote about the x73i sucking and the other one specificaly mentions the eq sucking and saying something about it being a result of the inductor not sounding very good. I'll keep looking for the other quote.

I just don't understand the tremendous effort that is going into the 1081 clone project to keep it as close to the original as possible with the extremely difficult to obtain switches that take tons of labor to put together if something more basic to the sound of a 1073 like the inductor is of poor quality or not to original spec.



But by DIYing something, you have the option to go all out with rotary switches where the manufacturer may have used cheap pots, better quality connectors, more expensive esoteric capacitors, resistors, better wiring, better layout.


I agree with all that to a certain point I enjoy quality components, I just find it hard to believe that esoteric caps or other parts would be the big difference maker in a 1081 clone sound wise etc. I've heard supposed knowledgeable Neve experts say that the sound is mostly a result of the iron including inductor. And I would think even average quality components of todays standards should be relatively close to the original Neve stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt Rupert Neve used tantalum caps as a way to improve the sound wasn't that more of a cheap accident, so I don't believe the famed
Neve stuff was built to esoteric botique standards. So my point is that if one goes through the trouble of building a clone shouldn't the scrutiny be placed on the specific components that are known for achieving that particular sound? One member has suggested that the inductors made the x73i sound bad so why use the same inductor and then go through all the trouble of finding esoteric switches with extensive labor curves if the inductors don't give you the Neve "sound"? I'd love to build one too, that's why I'm taking the time to ask concerning questions. :grin:
 
soundguy



Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1532
Location: NYC, USA
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I recently purchased a vintech X73i. I wanted to see what they did with the layout and the price was really good on the box from my usual dealer, so I gave it a shot. I want to be fair so Im not gonna say it sounds terrible but the EQ really doesnt sound good at all. While I thought I was getting a "deal" I got exactly what I paid for and it really just comes down to the caps in the EQ which sounds like the nasaliest bit of harshness out there, certainly not "neve like" at all.



dave


Oops my bag should do my homework before I post. Anyway here was the other quote which talks about the capacitors and not the inductors as being the cause of the poor sound quality. My most sincere apologies, but I could have sworn I read something about the inductors.
 
[quote author="Lindell"]That soundguy should start using his ears instead staring blind on the caps...[/quote]

lmao.gif
lmao.gif
lmao.gif


oh man i cant wait...
 
rich-

If you try the x73i and you like it, then it is fantastic. As much as everyone on the internet would like to believe, there is contest out there to make the best sounding shit. At the end of the day nobody gives a shit what gear you used to make a sound come out of speakers and all this shit we use should be judged on the ease at which it allows you to get the sound that you want to come out of the speakers. Knowing neve gear fairly well, or well enough at least to have a realistic expectation, I was wildly disappointed with the x73i as I found it sounded nothing like what I was used to and I had to work very hard fucking with it to get a cool sound to come out of it. Why is that? I dont know. I wrote it off to the cap selection which was stuff full of parts I wouldnt ever use, but it could also be just the PCB layout or something as moronic like that. If you can get something usable out of that box for your style and expectation that rules as its really affordable for what is in there. Im confident that I could change some components in there and make it sound better though so you can do with that what you wish. Without knowing me, my style or my expectations its somewhat silly to bait me into an argument about this. If you make really "modern" sounding recordings you'd know right off the bat how worthless debating this with me would be, everyhting I do sounds "old" and Im sure that vintech box would be great on a korn record which is what it reminded of when I put a guitar through it. I am just finishing mastering a record that I did some vocal tracks with that box and they most certainly dont soud "bad" by any stretch. However good they sound, Im not particularly motivated to continue using that box so....

dave
 
Cool, wasn't trying to bate you into an argument though. Just wanted to hear more of what you thought before I consider the worthwhileness in undertaking a clone project of this magnitude when maybe I could buy one an upgrade it.
Thanks
 
I've compared the x73 and x73i with the real deal and was really impressed with the sound of the vintech stuff.. I'm not saying it sounded better or worse, but it sounded pretty darn close..
Would I say they sound like sh*&%.?? Off course not.. they sound great.. At least to my taste.. Which doesn't mean I wouldn't try to diy something different before I spent that kind of money..
my 2 cents..
peace
Gil
 
rich-

I got a good deal on mine and needed it that week for a mix, if I wasnt under a time constraint I would have built one. If you are going to buy one to upgrade, the first logical thing to do would be adding a nice power supply, its packaged with an off the shelf open frame supply so get rid of that first. Beyond that you are on your own. I think the seventh circle N72 sounds really fantastic and the vintech doesnt sound anything like that so Im certainly not some kind of purist where if its not neve its garbage in my book. I found the EQ to be really abrasive sounding so I would try different aps in there to start, could be worse or better, who knows. You could also turn it on and love the sound of it so dont put all your egggs in my sonic basket.

dave
 
[quote author="soundguy"]I think the seventh circle N72 sounds really fantastic and the vintech doesnt sound anything like that so Im certainly not some kind of purist where if its not neve its garbage in my book.

dave[/quote]


I second that! The N72 is as close as it gets to an audio orgasm for me! Although the A12 and J99 aren't far behind.

Shane
 
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