Very Simple Transistor Amplifier Design Question

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Ian MacGregor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
280
Location
Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
Hi,
I have a project for one of my junior ECE classes and my design partner and I have been banging our heads against the wall trying to get the simplest single stage amplifier to work properly. Here are our design requirements:

Voltage gain = 2 +/- 20%
AC Input impedance : greater than 150 Ohms
Load impedance: an 8 Ohm loudspeaker.
Supply voltage: zero and 5 volts.
DC current consumption: less than 200 mA.
Mininum peak-peak voltage before clipping: at least 0.75 Volts peak-peak. Note that although speakers are often driven by emitter followers, it is probably easier in this project to use a common-emitter output stage, where the speaker is both the load and the collector DC biasing resistor.

We've tried doing what the professor said and using the speaker as the DC bias resistor. Testing with my scope reveals that we actually have a voltage gain of about 0.5, not 2 like we are supposed to.

Here is the schematic: http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/albums/userpics/10021/CAM%20output.pdf

I'm not looking for anyone to give us the whole solution, I'm just wondering if anyone would have any hints or things we are doing totally wrong. Thanks for your help!
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This is a perfect example of an EE professor being completely out of touch with how the problem would be approached in the real world. And he's already set strict parameters that prevent you from attacking the problem in a sensible fashion. And let me guess: the "circuit building" in this class consists of SPICE simulations, doesn't it?

At any rate, if I have some free time later today, I'll give this some thought and offer my suggestions. Of course, if you're lucky, this thread will catch PRR's attention before then :wink:
 
Make sure you remember the RE of the transistor.

I have never used spice I alway work out circuits in my head and on paper. I don't trust it and most stuff in electroincs is closse enought design.

You have stock value caps and resistor and small, med and large transistors. Don't get hung up in numbers the thing that counts some is the proccess type.
 
[quote author="Ian MacGregor"]Load impedance: an 8 Ohm loudspeaker.
Supply voltage: zero and 5 volts. [/quote]
BC184
Silicon NPN Small Signal Transistor
...
Yes, circuits really works in SPICE, in real maybe evaporates with
16 ohms in emitter. :)

xvlk
 
> we actually have a voltage gain of about 0.5, not 2 like we are supposed to.

As-if C2 was not there, right? So you have 15+5=20 ohms emitter, 8 ohms collector, Gv about 0.5.

Dammit, if you must be an EE, calculate those coupling and bypass caps! We ignorant intuitive designers have to guess and over-size and test, you can compute the exact right value with some equation. Which would tell you that 5uFd at 1KHz is something like 30 ohms. Skipping some imaginary math, you still have 15-18 ohms in the emitter, 8/16=0.5. (You would have noticed this if you'd slewed from 100Hz to 10KHz.....)

EDIT: I think if you calculate C2 for some reasonable bypass effect the plan will meet spec. The bandwidth is not specified and I suspect you can try to claim it is a dog-whistle booster: it should meet spec at 15KHz. But if you want to hear it, think what size cap is 4Ω at 300Hz. 220uFd? Ah, but don't forget the 16Ω. And don't forget Re: adds to the 3.9Ω, would be real-small with a fat transistor at 100-200mA, but could be 10Ω in a small transistor.
 
And xvlk has a good point. BC184 is badly stressed at 200mA, outside the spec-sheet limit. Do that in a commercial design, and even if it gets out the door, it will soon come back dead under warranty, and they dump all the deaders in your cubicle.

Input spec says 150 ohms. Remember that if you feed from a 50 ohm signal generator, you have a voltage loss of 150/(50+150) right there.
 
> This is a perfect example of an EE professor being completely out of touch with how the problem would be approached in the real world. And he's already set strict parameters that prevent you from attacking the problem in a sensible fashion.

Well.... you may be too young, but we DID build amps like that. 6V lantern battery, one transistor, DC in the speaker, input from a carbon mike. A 1-transistor megaphone from days when one transistor was precious. Note that the specs are not so different from the problem. An agitated talker will make about 0.4V p-p in a carbon mike.

And Ian-- remember that Back In The Day, resistors were 10X the price (in real money) that we pay today; electro caps about 50X modern prices. You don't need all those parts. The spec is too tight to allow stray parts sucking power. If the power consumption spec were looser, I'd say you could do it with one cap, one resistor, one transistor, a speaker and a battery. Sketch-out that idea and see how bad it is.

Remember that there is NO distortion spec. As long as you get 0.75V p-p (which ought to be easy), it can run 26% THD and pass. And be a workable bull-horn.

Another hint: even for a 1-Watt bullhorn, we used a TO-3 transistor, NOT that wimpy TO92. Go get something from the TO220 drawers.
 
Ok!! Wow, some great help here, I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate it.


NYD Said:
This is a perfect example of an EE professor being completely out of touch with how the problem would be approached in the real world. And he's already set strict parameters that prevent you from attacking the problem in a sensible fashion. And let me guess: the "circuit building" in this class consists of SPICE simulations, doesn't it?

Actually Dave, he mentions in the lab that an emitter follower would probably be the best choice but he would like us to use the CE configuration for this lab. Also, no SPICE involved! We are required to build the lab as well as sourcing all of our own parts.

PRR Said:
As-if C2 was not there, right? So you have 15+5=20 ohms emitter, 8 ohms collector, Gv about 0.5.

Dammit, if you must be an EE, calculate those coupling and bypass caps! We ignorant intuitive designers have to guess and over-size and test, you can compute the exact right value with some equation. Which would tell you that 5uFd at 1KHz is something like 30 ohms. Skipping some imaginary math, you still have 15-18 ohms in the emitter, 8/16=0.5. (You would have noticed this if you'd slewed from 100Hz to 10KHz.....)

This totally turned on the light bulb for me! I just told my roomate and we are gonna go breadboard it up and recheck. We just have to make sure that at audio frequencies (our pass range from 400Hz to 4kHz) C2 must look like a short.

Thanks again!!

Ian
 
> Voltage gain = 2 +/- 20%
Load impedance: an 8 Ohm loudspeaker.


I'm getting ahead of you, but....

"an 8 Ohm loudspeaker" is a sloppy spec. It will be 6Ω at DC, 50Ω at bass resonance, 7Ω midband, rising past 20Ω in the treble.

So your emitter resistor gain-set is going to give 50/6= 8:1 of gain variation, not 1.2/0.8 range of gain.

Besides which, it gives zero damping. That was not explicitly required in the spec, but is clearly implied by "+/-20%" in "an 8 ohm loudspeaker".

So how would you nail the voltage gain against load impedance variations? And most of the obvious ways to do that in a 1-transistor amp with gain >1 will lower the input impedance.....

As a "style" thing, forget emitter bypass caps. If the bandwidth were specified as low as 100Hz, this cap would be the most expensive part in the whole amp. If another company designs it out, your product is over-priced, nobody buys it, company goes broke and you're flipping burgers again.

I'm not sure both goals are compatible, and since cost was not specified you can compromise with the biggest cap in the lab. But there are not many real jobs where cost is not the biggest issue. (Even in cost-plus military work, the product has to be cheap enough so the gross profit supports all the lobbyists who got you the gravy-train contract.)
 
Here's a couple of ideas. You're the baby EE, so you work out the fine details :wink:

simpleBJTamp.gif


..and here's a transformer that might be available down at your local mall:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=273-1380

I think the second circuit is a little more elegant, since the transformer is included in the -fb loop. In any case, I can just about guarantee you that no-one else in your class would even THINK of using an output transformer. That alone should score you some points, especially if the instructor is an older guy. :razz:
 
> a transformer that might be available

Then Ian needs to know things that Radio Shack won't tell.

The 1KCT:8 transformer is intended for push-pull, no DC current, or maybe 2mA unbalance.

I suspect that 10mA DC will wollop what little bass response it has.

But consider: 5V supply, 1K available winding, just 5mA DC bias will give a Class A single ended amp. That blows-away the 200mA project spec limit. Instead of a lantern battery, it could live all day on a weak 9V batt or four AAA cells.

But will it meet other specs? The power output spec is 0.75V peak-peak in 8Ω, or 0.75V/2.828= 0.265V RMS, which in 8Ω is 0.008,8 Watts. 5V supply and 5mA bias is 0.025 Watts idle power. This type Class A can approach output power 1/2 of DC power. So 0.025W DC should make 0.012W Audio which is more than the 0.009W spec. But not by much! We might find that a volt here and a dB there, we can't really deliver 0.008,8W to the load while Prof is looking.

Ah, but the power dissipation is SO much less than all the 100mA-200Ma projects from the other teams, and no DC heat in the speaker. that maybe some allowance can be made (especially if Ian can calculate the change of power supply or transformer ratio needed to meet spec).

Since no temperature or parts-interchange spec seems to be required, I would go very bold on bias. Say just 0.2V on the emitter resistor. Enough to kinda-swamp Hie and sorta-swamp Vbe (over limited temperature). So emitter resistor is 40Ω. Assuming β≥100, naked base impedance is 4K, plenty high. Voltage gain is about 1,000/40 or 25, times transformer ratio is 2.23. Right on the mark; maybe too close but emitter resistor can be fudged a bit with some loss of DC stability. Base-bias resistance should be much-less than β*40, trial value 400Ω base to ground, 2Kbase to +5V. Exact values to be computed by student, who should also swap in several "identical" transistors and resistors to observe how bad the plan screws-up in real-life production. (I've seen worse...)
 
Yeah, I knew that xfmr was probably meant for push-pull with little or no DC imbalance. But since there's no distortion or frequency response requirement, I figured, why not? I assume the proof-of-performance will likely be single-tone, sine, most likely mid-frequency, probably within the range where the feedback loop is effective.

The transformer, the use of negative voltage feedback, the relatively low collector current and the relatively high efficiency would make it stand out against what the other teams are likely to come up with. If we're talking about a bunch of guys in their 20s, most of 'em have probably never heard of an audio transformer, or have seen negative feedback except when wrapped around an IC.

Based on the conditions PRR gives as a good starting point, I would suggest that the 2N4401 should be a suitable transistor to try.
 
Well heck, it says single stage not single transistor. Why not get just get an input transformer too and just use the push-pull circuit they used in every $5 transistor radio they made in the sixties?
 
F*ck yeah! That's even better. And even more impressive since the other students will have assumed (as I did) that the instructor meant "single transistor."

Centertapped secondary on the input transformer, voltage-divider bias applied to centertap... Very conventional '60s/'70s technology, but breathtakingly original compared to what the other teams will probably come up with.
 
I'll throw my silly comments in here, though all these calcs are makin' my head hurt (again!)

Note that although speakers are often driven by emitter followers, it is probably easier in this project to use a common-emitter output stage, where the speaker is both the load and the collector DC biasing resistor.
The prof does imply a single transistor here, though I'd say he doesn't require it specifically.

Here's another thought, if you used a Darlington transistor, would it still be single stage? :evil: It would still be "single transistor", strictly speaking. MPSA12?

Otherwise, I'd second dayvel's suggestion.

HTH!
 
> a single transistor

Clearly Ian didn't give the whole spec: that 400-5KHz spec popped up later.

It isn't clear that we are limited to ONE transistor. However, not to be snide, but if Ian and chum could overlook the bypass that doesn't bypass, then maybe one transistor is a good thing to work on before he gets reckless with multi-transistor work.

The specs, as I know them, can be met, several ways, with a single ordinary transistor and no "exotic parts" like transformers. That's part of why they are so goofy (0.75V p-p from a 5V supply???).

> I'd second dayvel's suggestion.

History agrees with you. However today that driver transformer is hard to source (the 1KCT:8 tranny is a fluke and I don't know why RS still lists it). Mouser has them. You could haunt yard-sales and score a 1963 transistor radio, strip the iron, but to avoid academic cheating Ian should have a "clean room" B-team dismantle the radio and hand over the parts without revealing the actual circuit to steal.

Since Ian probably won't score the iron and may not be allowed 2 transistors, I'll do this one.

With a 10K:2KCT driver, two transistors, and the 1KCT:8 output, we get:

4V peak on one side of the output primary, 8V peak across 1K, 0.715 peak or 1.43V p-p across the 8 ohms, well in excess of spec even with several dB loss in the core.

Max power is about 0.5VRMS in 8Ω or 32 milliWatts, well in excess of the implied 9mW.

In good class B, 32mW out means around 8mW of dissipation in each transistor. I've assumed 4V peaks on a 5V supply so there is another 25% waste, 10mW per transistor.

Peak current is around 4V/250Ω= 16mA. Peak transistor voltage under load is about 9V.

10mW, 16mA, 9V: we can use the CHEAPEST transistor we can find. (Indeed that is what you find in millions of 1960s tranny radios, rated upward of 100mW on 9V batt.)

Power input is around 52mW on a 5V rail so DC current is around 11mA, less than the specified 200mA (by a long shot). I know for fact that a used 6V lantern battery, too weak to run a lantern, will run a 9V pocket radio for months.

Ignoring crossover, the transistors average 5mA-10mA current so the Hie is around 6Ω-3Ω. Say 5Ω. Dynamic gain from 5Ω to 250Ω is around 50, so for 4V peak at the collector, we need 0.08V peak at the base. Total voltage gain from one base to the load is nearly 10!

In pure class B, gain at zero audio signal is zero (transistor cut-off, no gain). We need to pick a bias current to get nice sound, and also to estimate gain at less than max power. Note that at peak current, 16mA, the Hie will be like 2Ω in one transistor, very high in the other. With decent AB biasing, both transistors contribute for small signals. For the same gain at small signal, each Hie should be 4Ω, or 8mA. That's essentially Class A operation. In practice the Hie won't sink as low as 2Ω because our cheap transistors have an ohm or so of dead resistance (maybe 10Ω for 100mA transistors) and we can get away with much lower bias current and will have less gain.

IIRC (cheating), you typically found about 22Ω common emitter resistor, a few-mA bias, so the emitter impedance runs 30Ω small-signal 25Ω large signal. So gain from base to collector is around 250/30= 8, and peak base swing about 4/8= 0.5V. Overall gain from one base to load is about 0.8/0.5= 1.6, less than specified. In the orginal app we would be stepping-down from a volt-amp collector. Here we are given a fat 50Ω output and a lenient 150Ω input spec, so we could custom-wind a step-up input to reach the gain spec. Or we could fudge the emitter resistance down to maybe 10Ω and get gain of 2 with a unity-gain input iron.

With Re=10Ω and β=50 the input impedance is around 750Ω per base. We could ask CJ to send over a plain 150:600CT transformer and have input impedance to spare. However the standard pocket radio 10K:2KCT input iron gives a step-down and we'd be way short of voltage gain.

This plan gives zero damping. We could fudge-up the input transformer ratio to get more voltage gain and then work negative feedback around it.

A wackier scheme: as long as we are talking fancy driver transformers, defy Prof and try push-pull emitter followers into the handy 1KCT:8 tranny. Great damping (almost DF=10). Voltage gain from one base to load is 5.5:1 or 0.18, so to meet the spec of 2 we need input ratio from source to one base of 11, base-base about 22. Impedance ratio is 22^2=484. If input can not be less than 150Ω, then we need over 150*484= 73K base-base, or 36K each base. The base impedance is about 250Ω*β or 12K5, too low. We need to spec β over 150 to meet specs, but that is easy today for transistors of this size. Notice that to get very-low THD and good damping we needed β much higher than the minimal β needed to just-barely fulfil the sloppy assignment.

Screw transformers. They are wonderful but cost a LOT more than transistors, or even transistors plus capacitors. If you take the 5v supply and feed a (2 transistor) totem-pole output stage, you can get over 4V p-p which is way over the spec. Working into 8Ω it will draw about 100mA at full output, well under the spec. Working CC (emitter follower) it has voltage gain of unity, it flunks. Working CE it can have a large-signal voltage gain of 60 at 4V p-p, though only 11 at the required 0.75V p-p spec. To work CE kinda requires that the signal generator (or power supply!) "floats". That was not specified though I can imagine the undergraduate lab has all grounds bonded. A 150:150 transformer would fix that, if we get back to the problem of sourcing iron between classes, meals, and parties. The voltage gain can be degraded from 60-11 to 2 with some clever feedback, which could also damp the loudspeaker load and its impedance swings. However, given input iron, a 150:600 with emitter followers gives the specified gain and good damping, though you need β over 100.

Yet another answer is to saw open a TO-3, put in an LM380 with a 3.6Ω resistor from OUT to V+, seal it up as a "3 terminal device" with a 2N3055 part number. With DC through the speaker, it would give ample gain and great THD and damping, though the "base" current and voltage and biasing would be obviously odd. At first glance, "it can't work", yet it could.

Probably past my bedtime......
 
Thanks PRR for the late night class. It has been far too long (?) since I have needed to deal with this sort of thought process. I'm waaaay too lazy these days. I now take too much of this stuff for granted and fly by the "seat of my experience".

...if we get back to the problem of sourcing iron between classes, meals, and parties.
Ian is in Engineering school. He'd better not be partying (much)! And I had to give up eating about halfway thru my 3rd year. I came out of college about 10 lbs lighter. :sad: and I did not have any to lose.

Yet another answer is to saw open a TO-3, put in an LM380...
Now yer talkin! This sort of thing will probably be the reason my wife will soon ban me from working on my son's science projects... :thumb: I had to give him some "corrections" on the terminology used by his 3rd grade teacher when they studied sound recently.

Peace!
Charlie
 
Wow! There is so much on this thread. I am really learning a ton. I haven't been giving updates because I've been working on this thing all day as well as four other EE homework assignments due tomorrow! You probably wouldn't believe me if I said that I was taking the minimum of 12 units this quarter!

Anyway, since the project is due fairly soon and I get the impression that the professor sorta wants us to conform to the single transistor CE stage I think we will stick with that. I definately dig the transformer ideas, I just have a feeling we might want to avoid them since we haven't really been taught about them in any sort of real application.

The frequency spec is from 400Hz to 4kHz and the gain is not supposed to vary from 2 anywhere along the freq response. This is the part we are having trouble with now. It always seems like our hi-freq (4k) gain is higher, something like 2.2-2.3, while everything below that (400~1k) has a gain of 2.0.

Here's a link to the project requirements if anyone is interested.

As for recent changes to our circuit, we made Ce waaay big (~2000uF) and upped Cin (~100uF) as well. Here are the most recent resistor values:
Rc = speaker (~8R)
Reac = 3.5R
Redc = 51R
Rb1 = 500R
Rb2 = 2k

Again, thanks for the sharing of knowledge!!
 
A speaker is inductive. Not counting the low-frequency resonant "hump"--which we can probably ignore for our purposes since most full-range speakers will have a hump well below 400Hz--its impedance starts low and rises with frequency. That's why when the speaker is driven from any amplifier of finite source impedance, the voltage across the speaker is going to rise as you go up in frequency.

If you want flat or at least flat-ish response, you'll have to use negative feedback, or maybe an R-C conjugate load across the speaker.
 
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