My name brand guitar amps are being mass produced in SoCal.

thermionic said:

You think the audio business is worse than other product fields? I tend to think people-are-people.

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People are people but there are also cultural differences about copying the IP of others as either clever or devious. We also mature to different understanding of the value of this as property between being children and adults (well some do mature).

You get those who will take the easy route without crediting the originator in any industry. We are all influenced by others to an extent, so there's no real thing as a *totally original* design (or piece of music for that matter)

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There is a fine line, but a line, between being inspired by or copying previous IP.  Most invention builds upon the foundation of previous art, this the whole rational of patents publishing the invention so others can learn and build upon that.

- that's not my beef. My issue is with firms such as Beh, who deliberately copy other firms hook, line and sinker, without even trying to disguise the origins. When I read an interview with Aphex's president, he called Uli Beh a 'sociopath' - I couldn't agree more.

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Behringer has gone through different phases in their corporate lifetime. They have had to pay a relatively small fraction of the times they have been charged, but this reflects more on the difficulty to perfect and prosecute IP protection, not a testament to their behavior. The judge just dismissed the lawsuit between my former employer and them over one of my patents they used as "inspiration". 

One corporate phase beginning roughly with the knock-off the Mackie 8-bus, and slowly tapering off as there are less obvious category killers to copy. You can still see echoes of other companies designs in some of their new offerings, while they have matured to actually doing more original product too. While not completely original, more like a way cheaper version of professional product.

As long as they behave and win in court they are legal to keep on keeping on. The recent PR charm offensive from Uli himself posting to forums has been pretty effective, not to covert those who lived through the wars, but for the new crop coming up, who don't understand all the old haters.  8)

The way I see it, you can wear a white dress to your wedding, but don't expect me to believe you are a virgin. i was at that party too.  ;D

JR 

I used to build copies of Fender amps when I started as an apprentice many years ago at a small company that is successful today. I also saw an SVT and other tube amps being shipped to china so they could be copied and sold under another name. I have considered cloning a Magnatone just to break into that market, it's quirky. But I like to create original circuits, based on existing designs. Massive Passive Aggressive? perhaps, I do live in Seattle.

> I'm not loosing any business to them, and I'm sure I won't take any of their customers.

That's probably about the size of it. If they have been making guitars, branching into amplifiers is a perfectly logical way to leverage their access to music shop sales. If they have used the Vogel name since 1995, why should they change? If they have a factory and you have a bench, you can't strong-arm them.

AFAICT, they could NOT have known of your use of the name. You are hardly notorious. It took several tries using non-obvious clues to Google you. I now know your day-job, but they don't tout your amplifiers. I did find one old forum reference, but any Google search will find old forum references. Google linked a guitar-shop but the link is 404, suggesting you once had a deal and now it is expired.

Not like Mazda. G.E. had used the Mazda brand world-wide for decades before Toyo Kogyo named a car Mazda-Go.

But right away, *document* your 2-decade use of the name "Vogel" on amplifiers. Find your older customers, get pictures and statements. "I bought this Vogel amp from Walter in 1994, signed Fred Farkel." If the other Vogel asks you to C&D, you can show them that you been using the name longer than they have. That's not a rock-solid leg to stand on, true. But combined with your low-low output and distinct logo, they may not push hard.

Another point: most audio companies go broke. Unless Vogel/Ecuador has low-low labor cost for wood/metal-working, they will find it hard-going against the Chinese factories, and probably drop out of the amplifier racket in a few years. So play a stalling game.

"Vogel" is not an unusual name. Wikipedia sez "Vogel is the German and Dutch word for "bird" and is a common surname originating in German-speaking countries", lists 58 people named Vogel.

It may be wise to think about some more unusual-brand name. "Little Walter" is notoriously taken, but you can think of something.

Remember that James B. Lansing was prohibited from using his own name on speakers (after a bankruptcy and sale). "JBL" slipped by, but "James Lansing Signature Series" went to court.

Imo, a slightly wiser choice would be to "rename" your "brand" into something highly personal, like "Mr. VOGEL".

With proper graphical design, this could be a highly passive-aggresive bussines move, actually a piggyback on the mass-produced "other" brand - with all subtle psychological "branding" aspects cleverly hidden within the brand-name.

Mann, can you say, amen?

I recall back in the 70s seeing an old "Roberts" tape recorder and promising myself at that time to never name a company after myself. Since then I've seen and even met a few people who lost use of their own name on products. Greg Mackie comes to mind as a recent audio business example, and he should have known better since that company wasn't his first rodeo.  I was so sensitive to failure that I named two of my early companies after the Phoenix, a mythological bird that perishes and is reborn anew (after 300 years).

JR

I'm disappointed. I thought the radios were another part of your empire :- ) Good decision, though. You could've found yourself in all kinds of trademark disputes... Mind you, I think Roberts radios are all made in China now... They've definitely gone downmarket compared to the boxes of old.

The closest I've come to a namesake product is my "Johnny beer", and that is not commercially available.  8)



JR

Thanks to all who responded to my post. I wanted to document my claim and create some buzz about my product name, add one more "hit" on any search engine...  I worked at a small repair shop six years ago, they haven't taken me off their website, I wouldn't mind going back to work there.