Any of you Adobe Premiere/Encore/transcoding experts?

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Mbira

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I'm working on a DVD that is sort of a hybrid performance/instructional music video, and I have been going crazy for about two months trying to get good transcode settings for this project. It has three audio streams and I am trying to preserve the best quality video and audio (obviously), but I can not for the life of me get both good video and good audio without getting the "timeline bitrate too high error". Before I put in too many more details, are any of you experts at this? I have gone so far as to buy Parallels so I could view the peak bitrates of these videos, and I'm just going nuts wasting 2-3 hours at a time transcoding just to see the quality is not right and have to do it again, etc...
 
What is the length of your material? And which codec are you trying to export with? And did you use a transcoder before using files in AP?

Think I can help you but with some further info :)
 
There length is around 45 minutes.  There are 6 songs, and two menus, and a couple other extras (musician bio page, credits, etc). 

I have tried dynamic linking from Premiere into Encore and building the disc that way (disc burned but was very poor quality video). I used the "automatic" settings for the transcoding there.
When I have tried to export from Premiere, I have tried lots of settings (exporting each individual song as its own timeline). 

I did not transcode the files going into Premiere.  The audio was recorded at 16/96.  The video was recorded on a PSEye and are .mov files. 

The video is in a split screen format and shows the camera feed of each PSEye.  Pictures are worth more than words:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/accepting-pre-orders-for-matepe-duet-dvd?website_name=matepe

The .mov files are shrunk down to fit into the 720x480 timeline. 

Each song has three audio tracks: 1) Player 1, 2) Player 2, 3) Both players together.  The viewer can choose which audio stream to listen to in the menu settings. 

When doing Export->Media out of Premiere, I am using MPEG2-DVD in NTSC.  I also export the audio as wav files (PCM), and tried ac3 format as well.  I don't see a codec option when exporting in that way.
 
Here's a specific problem that is eating me up.  I have a .m2v video file for one song that is 4:30 long.  720x480.  29.97 fps. 180MB.  It plays for me at decent quality on my computer.  When I open the file in Parallels and use Bitrate Viewer, I see an average bitrate of 5499 kbps with a peak of 5810 kbps. 

The kicker is if I save the three audio files as ac3 using Digital Dolby only at 192kbps for that song and then create the timeline in Encore with the video and those three audio files, I still see a "timeline bitrate too high" for that timeline if I try and build in Encore...
 
Did you try using dvd architect pro instead of encore?

There is one important thing..
Is the footage upper or lower field?

you should turn off the blend fields option..or interpolate fields.. that might be on?
 
Im actually doing this kinda thing right now.  Ill +1 on DVD architect.  Its so simple.  Have done a few commercial DVD releases using it.
 
DVDs support 24fps ( film ).  I often use these settings as i like the look much better.  Less frames = smaller bitrate.  The 24fps gives it more of a film feel too.
 
sr1200 said:
Thought DVD players automatically pull 24 to 30.

pretty sure DVDs play back at 24p (23.976),  or 30i ( 29.97 ).

29.97 is interlaced where 23.976 is progressive scan.
 
If youre viewing device supports it.  If you're sending an NTSC format to the TV or projector, the DVD player is going to pull to 30 so that the device can handle it.  Some Plasma and LCD TV's can do the 24fps, but afaik most things are pulled at the DVD player.
 
I will be doing an NTSC and a PAL version.  I'm already pretty invested timewise in Encore and don't have DVD Architect, and menus, etc are already created in Encore.  It wouldn't be the end of the world to switch, but I think this is user error, and I just need to figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong. 

Here are my video settings:
http://www.rattletree.com/DIY/Screen%20shot%202013-05-16%20at%205.58.22%20PM.png

and my audio settings (for all three audio streams):
http://www.rattletree.com/DIY/Screen%20shot%202013-05-16%20at%205.58.44%20PM.png

For field order, I did progressive, as both lower and upper give me nasty combing.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  To that end, if any of you guys are inspired to try and dump this sample clip into Encore, here are the files for a little snip:
http://www.rattletree.com/DIY/Testing%20transcode%20settings/

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Joel
 
There is definitely something screwed up here-even if I switch it to Blu-ray, it tells me timeline bitrate is too high. :-/
 
you can turn on the bitrate viewer and check the bitrate throughout the project.  video + all audio tracks cannot exceed 9.8mbs.  the bitrate viewer should show if it goes over anywhere.  variable bitrates could case the video to spike over... especially if you have several audio tracks.
 
also,  you can try exporting a lossless avi or mov (mac/win) and have encore choose the encoding bit-rates.
 
Check out my fourth post-there I mention the bitrate viewer findings. This is not making sense to me. I feel like this might be a big or something? I'm using CS5. Anyone with Encore 6 or cloud services able to pop the above sample clips into encore and see if you get the same error?
 
looked around a bit and found this...
ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCES IN SOUND QUALITY BETWEEN THE THREE HD AUDIO CODECs?
LPCM soundtracks on Blu-Ray Disc and HD-DVD are not compressed. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are lossless codecs. They are compressed versions of the PCM track.

The maximum uncompressed bit rates for a movie soundtrack are approximately:

48,000(samples per second) x 16(bits per sample) x 6(channels) = 4.6Mbps
48,000(samples per second) x 20(bits per sample) x 6(channels) = 5.8Mbps
48,000(samples per second) x 24(bits per sample) x 6(channels) = 6.9Mbps
48,000(samples per second) x 16(bits per sample) x 8(channels) = 6.1Mbps
48,000(samples per second) x 20(bits per sample) x 8(channels) = 7.7Mbps
48,000(samples per second) x 24(bits per sample) x 8(channels) = 9.2Mbps

Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA can go up to
96,000(samples per second) x 24(bits per sample) x 8(channels) = 18.4Mbps

Please remember that since both CODECs use variable bit rates, we cannot calculate the average bit rate of a typical soundtrack. In addition, Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA use different compression algorithms and on the average use less than the maximum numbers.

Theoretically, LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS Master Audio should sound the same if they are encoded at the same number of bits and sampling frequency (16 bits, 48 KHz for example). Any difference that you may hear are due to channel volume differences.

Decoded Dolby TrueHD = Decoded DTS HD MA = Uncompressed LPCM

In the future, we will see less LPCM titles (especially at 24-bit, 96KHz, and 7.1-channels) since this will require a lot of disc space. TrueHD and DTS Master Audio are encoded at variable bit rate and compressed, leaving more disc space for better picture quality and more extras.

Try bumping your audio down to 48 instead of 96.  (any difference)
 
As i can see your rendering with variable bitrate setting...did you try rendering with constant bitrate?
 
yeah-now it's looking like this might be a bug in the software.  Here's a guy with the exact same problem:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/adobe-creative-suite/484671-cs5-encore-bug-timeline-bitrate-too-high-w-subtitles.html

Someone in the Adobe forum thought that Encore may be trying to reference old cached files or something as well.  I threw out the transcoded files and changed the transcode settings from within Encore and transcoded the timeline (as opposed to transcoding the video file).  That seems to have worked -at least for the first file.  I was able to transcode at 7Mbs VBR and have the main audio file be 44/16, and the other two were the .a3c at 470kbps. 

This stuff is killing my macbook pro! 
 
Moby-if you do have a few minutes to download those media clipe(about 10 seconds of video and three 10 second audio clips) and just drag them into a new Encore project and test the build to see if a bitrate error came up, then I'd know its not the files but the way my Encore is handling the files....if not, it's all good.
 

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