Do we need an extended 51X format (52X)?

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Spidouz

Member
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
8
Hi everyone,

It's my first post here, so here's a short presentation before to enter in the main subject. I've been reading the forum for few time now. I'm working in the music industry (multiple hats). I've done some production, recording, sound design work, studio installation and wiring as well as some R&D stuff. However, I have some poor electronics knowledge and the whole DIY is quite some new for me. So, please forgive me if I'm saying just big mistakes about electronics ;)

I'm actually came here from my interest to 500 Series rack, and more particularly to the 51X for DIY modules. I haven't build anything yet  (but I'm studying what I'd love to build; some classic ones such DON Classic NV73, Igor FX76, LAZ EQN 1084, etc...).

I was asking myself lately if it wouldn't be interesting to push the limit a little bit further by having a bigger connectors with more pinouts (44 instead of 36?)... I call it: 52X format.

Note: 5 stands for 500 rack, 2 stands for stereo and the X stands for the ability to become whatever you want ;)

The whole purpose would be to keep the current 36 pinouts to be retro-fit with the 500 & 51X modules... but it would allow us to have more connectors to have Stereo Inputs and Stereo Ouputs for a single Module (no need to use two modules space for that anymore).

Why?

Most of the time if we have a Key in on a compressor, we need to have a front inputs connector. By having two ins and outs per module, it would help to solve this issue.

On another note, I'd actually like to convert Guitar Stomp Pedals in this 52X format, to be able to have dozen of stomps pedals in a rack. Some pedal do have stereo ins and/or outs. Not having the Stomp Pedal on the floor or on a rack drawer would be pretty nice. Because in the rack we would still access to all controls.

Do you think it is possible to use larger connector (and of course keeping compatibility with 500 and 51X format)?
Do we need this extended 52X format? What you think?

And if we don't need it, how could you achieve stereo ins and outs on a single module with the current 51X format?

Thanks for your feedback...
Phil
 
There are already a whole row of 17 pins not being used by 51X. There are some specialty modules designed for legacy API consoles that put some of the "A-S" pins to use, but we're not using them in the 51X rack. If you design your own modle to use them, all you would need to do is add connection on the backplane board to some more i/o connectors in the rack (where you would put them, I don't know).

I, personally would rather use up two slots for a stereo, because I prefer dual mono/stereo. I would hate to use a stereo unit for a mono signal, and lose that other half.
 
Hey Gemini,

Thank you for your reply. That's good to know there's some pinouts I could use for the stereo ins and outs. I don't know why, I was under the impression we didn't have any left (did I mention I have poor electronics knowledge... LOL). I'm gonna recheck it again...

From must of the time I'd also use two mono (EQ, Pre, Comp, etc...) but in the case of the Guitar Stomp Pedals, if I want to have some Chorus/Auto-Pan (with 1 in and 2 outs), I wish I could do it on a single Module.

Thanks again,
Phil
 
See this pic:

sp2_512c.jpg


If you need unbalanced inputs and outputs, there's already another pin left for each. The only reason that pins were added for 51X in the first place was for backward compatibility. We didn't want to put a legacy API module into a 51X chassis and fry something with 24V DC.
 
Oh, I got it!

So yeah, there's absolutely no need for a bigger connector then, the 51X will be more than enough for me to add another inputs and outputs. I will use Sub-D25 connector in the back of the rack anyway (easier for me to connect everything on a patchbay/console).

Then I could just have a "blank" PCB module that would have the inputs/outputs, voltage control... and then just connect any unmounted stomp pedal PCB to this blank module, wire the inputs/outputs, as well as the knobs on the front panel and I should be ready to go and I could use the stomp pedal in a 51X rack.

Well, still a lot to think about (mainly to have the 9VDC pedals usually use), but at least it should be possible one way or the other.

Thanks a lot!
Phil
 
So if I understand well... if I use the redundant connections for Inputs and Outputs (b,c,d and h,j,k,l) the module that use redundant ins and outs will just work in "mono" (just like they do right now anyway). And a stereo modules inserted in a regular 51X chassis with redundancy will also work in mono... Only a stereo modules inserted in a modified stereo 52X chassis (like I'd like to do) will work in stereo.... right?

Because if it's the case, it's still good to me... but I might miss something in my thinking process.

Phil
 
okgb said:
If anything , a " 700 '  version , as used by Bruno 2000  had been discussed a little
for trident & neve type things

I have started calling my units 71X so as not to infringe on anyone's toes.
Thanks for remembering!
Best,
Bruno2000
 
I'm not familiar with all format, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the V700 is 4U high right? What about the 71X?

Because in my case, all I want is only 2 ins and 2 outs in a 51X format. And 3U is just enough (most of stomps pedals only have 2 or 3 knobs anyway). If the 71X does match for my needs, I'm all good to use something already existing. No need to reinvent the wheel.
So please, feel free to point me to the right direction. I have search on the 71X on the forum, but I didn't get much results.

One question I still ask myself would be the interest to have 44 pinouts connector to have directly 9VDC from the power supply instead to have a conversion on each module... Since I'd like to have a way to change the voltage from 1.5VDC to 9VDC to simulate weak battery on some module, I'm not quite sure there's any benefit to not directly convert it from the 16VDC.

Sounds confusing? Yes, I am... ;)

Phil

 
bruno2000 said:
okgb said:
If anything , a " 700 '  version , as used by Bruno 2000  had been discussed a little
for trident & neve type things

I have started calling my units 71X so as not to infringe on anyone's toes.
Thanks for remembering!
Best,
Bruno2000

Here are some 71X projects, and one 51X:


http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=48493.msg612802#msg612802

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=44113.0

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46630.msg586731#msg586731

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40610.msg503046#msg503046

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50463.0
 
Thank you Bruno. I'm gonna read all of this ;)

BTW, I love your SSL 9K and 4K Modules... I will definitely have to try them one day (so much good things, not enough time ;)).

Phil
 

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