Transformerless Varimu Compressor

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

chrissugar

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
1,315
Location
EU
How can be properly done a transformerless varimu.
Tradeoffs, advantages, disadvantages ?
I would like something like this not because I don't like transformers but I would like them as a sound colour option.
Any thoughts?

chrissugar
 
the PRR variMu uses the ratshack trafos.. so far I have not been able to hear any coloration due to these trafos.. that may be the reason most would actually consider them "bad"... the output is unbalanced.. you could use the coloration trafos to balance the output and get the sound you want..
 
Vari-mu NEEDS to be driven differentially. If there's unbalance in it's inputs, it will distort badly.

So to run it transformerless, you'll need to first debalance your input stage (if it's balanced input) and then make the signal differential again - in a precise way.

You can't just use the balanced input directly, as it often won't be precisely differential - often even pseudo- or unbalanced.

So I don't really see the point in running transformerless for this purpose..

Jakob E.
 
Keep in mind that the interstage transformer in a vari mu comp increases the ability of the gain reduction tubes to compress, thus you get more compression before thumps. At the input and the output, yes, I say you can live with no transformers. Just a nice balanced line receiver, then a phase split before the tubes. Would that work?

Still, the manley varimu doens´t have any interstage transformer, and this is also the case with the AM864. Those are nice comps, so it´s doable. Just don´t expect 40dB gain reduction...
 
[quote author="thomasholley"]The EF89 is listed as a variable transconductance tube.
[/quote]
Yes, circuit can be identified as single-ended vari mu.
In single ended circuit there is transfer of control voltage
to the output. Than control voltage can not change fast
{as in the Fairchild}, because that must be filtered by output circuit.
That compressors must be slow.
Distortion can not be so high with selectode tube.

xvlk
 
Yea, you can do it easily, but with some work. If you don't want the attack time vs. frequency response tradeoffs inherent in a capacitively coupled vari-mu compressor, it takes a bit of work to simulate a transformer, but here's one approach:

Use one of the high-voltage (90 volt) op-amps. I believe Analog Devices and TI both have them. OPA445, for example. They are a bit noisy (15 nV/rtHz), though. To drive the grids of the two input tubes, try this arrangement:
Input signal -> balanced to unbalanced conversion and buffering
buffered signal -> split into two paths.
path 1 -> inverting driver, output goes to grid.
path 2 -> invert with gain of 1 -> inverting driver, output goes to grid

Into both of the inverting drivers, add a POSITIVE control voltage via trimmable resistors. That would do the trick, in a no-thump manner on the input. If you use +15 volts and -60 or -70 volts or so for the negative rail, it oughtta work. Alternatively, you could use a normal op-amp and a voltage booster type of output. National and Linear Tech have good app notes on these.

You will need to get the gains right so you get the right amount of signal and control voltage out, without railing any amplifiers. That's especially true with a voltage-booster type output.

The output is a bit more fun, but same story applies - you will need basically a high speed, low noise, instrumentation amplifier to do that part, and it's tricky because the common mode voltage range of the output is very high (maybe 250 volts), so the best approach here might be a simple differential amplifier (the one-op-amp instrumentation amp) with a very low gain so you don't exceed the voltage limits on the op-amp. Watch the resistor values to make sure you're not introducing lots of noise here. Make it a low-noise amp, then make up the gain in one more stage. If you trim the CMRR of that amp you oughtta be able to get close to a transformer in performance.

An alternative to the complicated output is to capacitively couple the outputs into a differential amplifier arrangement to filter out most of the control voltage, but if you do that, it will place serious limitations on the frequency respone and minimum attack time. The Altec 436C sort of does this, but the final CV removal happens at the output transformer. That may well work for this application, too. Follow the vari-mu stage with an amplifier like on the 436C and then the op-amp diff amp stage to get rid of the remaining CV thumping.

Clear like mud?

-Dale
 
Jakob
Vari-mu NEEDS to be driven differentially.

Try this one for size then !

vm%20comp.jpg
 
> How can be properly done a transformerless varimu.

It can be done. But the transformers add a LOT of advantages, not easy to do without.

The output transformer is often omitted in budget limiters. The vari-gain plates swing a very large voltage (100V) as it goes into limiting, so the next stage needs a BIG common-mode range. Except: you can "hide" a slow attack by letting the next stage clip transients that the vari-gain control path doesn't catch.

The input transformer is great. It gives a very balanced and reasonably low-Z audio drive, yet the impedance to the control voltage is "infinite". This greatly simplifies the control path, which can terminate in a high impedance.

If you just capacitor coupled from a phase-splitter, and injected control voltage after the caps, the control voltage would have to charge those caps. That forces very slow response.

Doing it in opamps is possible. But if we assume we want a differental line in and a gain control, I can't find a solution using less than 5 opamps. True, 5 opamps cost nothing today, and one of them does not carry audio so does not have to be very good.

There is probably a discrete equivalent, but it would not be a trivial design.

Holding the grids at ground and using a variable current source up the cathodes simply does not work. Before you get much gain-change or level, distortion pops out all over.

Using a second pair of tubes to control bias and cancel thump gets very complicated before it gets any better. It would take great dedication to make it work, and wealthy customers to make it pay.

> it's all in polish but the diagrams are pretty clear.

Ah, good old single-ended vari-gain. It works. It thumps, and violently at short attack times. It has large 2nd harmonic; or rather, THD becomes "high" about 20-30dB before a push-pull vari-gain stage's THD would get high. It may actually be "musical", but for wide dynamic range material it won't be clean.

> EF89 is listed as a variable transconductance tube.

ALL tubes and transistors are variable transconductance. Reductio ad absurdum: at zero current you always get zero transconductance. And there is no current where Gm suddenly changes from zero to book-value. Instead Gm increases as current increases. You can't avoid it.

> creative use of the suppressor grid!

Varying other grids has been done, and can work. Radiotron 4th has some notes on this. One interesting trick is: one of the penta-grid (AM converter) tubes has sharp cutoff on one grid, remote cutoff on another. Drive audio into the sharp cutoff (linear) grids, and cut the Gm with the remote cutoff grids. Now the signal grids can be driven any convenient way, and the control voltage sees an infinite impedance, not even the stray leakage of a transformer. Yet I don't know any actual boxes which do this.

The circuit Rob points to (his is from Pop Electronics but it is also shown in RDH4 in a different drawing) is a bit more clever. The cross-coupled 6BA6 don't cancel audio distortion (which will be non-trivial) but do semi-cancel thump. Both V2 and V3 are driven off, but V3 increases V2's Screen voltage which increases V2's current, and vice versa, so V2's current varies very little (apparently you can trim it to zero as a first-order approximation) and the output thump may be very small.

Rob, do you have the rest of the diagram and the part-list? If you feed a line-level, omit the magic-eye, use crystal diodes instead of 6AL5, it is just three dirt-cheap tubes. It will need a buffered output in modern life, and possible balancing, but the core is very simple. It might make a dandy guitar or vocal limiter and flavor-adder.
 
PRR

Somewhere I do have a bit more info on this but its not in the file it should be. I scanned the diagram some time ago & it was on my hard disk. I`ll have to do some digging around.

From memory it is designed to be used with a crystal mic by radio hams to increase their average transmitted signal strength.

I was intending to knock the circuit up to bench test, but the parts list I have is a bit sketchy. It was a scanned & printed hard copy that someone gave me, & some values were difficult to read, since the scanning was a bit low res. Maybe you will be help able to fill in the gaps if I find it.
 
Advantages... 40db gr range possible (due to some arrangements
of "inputtrafo immitator" that impossible with trafo :)
-45 db cv breakthrough @ 10k and 30db max gr (very good)
nice squarewave @ 100k
possible to built this thing without capacitors(just two dc servo's)
thus sound still tubbey but very clean
<0.5% dist. @30 db gr. @10k
Disadvantages...
First, headache with balanced in-out +/-30v (or more)
discrete opamp- not very homebrewable
(lasertrimming resistors in homelab???....) :)
but possible (some hours to get it tuned).
Second, headache with common mode shit...actually,
varymu vca is kinda wiene bridge, redrawn by crazy prof :)
Third, s/n can be much more better (up to 6-8db) with trafo....
Sound? If built good, AWESOME.
 
After two years, I thought to resurect this thread because I had the idea that this device ( http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/1600data.pdf ) can probably do the ballance needed by the pair of triodes doing the varimu function.
Any thoughts?

chrissugar
 
[quote author="chrissugar"]After two years, I thought to resurect this thread because I had the idea that this device ( http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/1600data.pdf ) can probably do the ballance needed by the pair of triodes doing the varimu function.
Any thoughts?
[/quote]

yes. use this right at the input, it is balanced with suposedly good CMRR. you can add resistance to the inputs to lower the gain. should be matched R's or trim it. add some protection diodes.
 
[quote author="gyraf"]Vari-mu NEEDS to be driven differentially. If there's unbalance in it's inputs, it will distort badly.

So to run it transformerless, you'll need to first debalance your input stage (if it's balanced input) and then make the signal differential again - in a precise way.

You can't just use the balanced input directly, as it often won't be precisely differential - often even pseudo- or unbalanced.

So I don't really see the point in running transformerless for this purpose..

Jakob E.[/quote]

Have a look at this

vm%20comp.jpg
 

Latest posts

Back
Top