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Fuccimain

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
137
Hey there. I downloaded MCCad (schematic lite and pcb lite)and tried to run thru the tutorial, but the tutorial is ancient (like written for Mac os9)

The programs seem to work well with the exception of adding values for the component sizes and attributes etc.. For example, the way the tutorial says to add the values for resistors causes errors when I run the report for "mcCad parts" gives errors and for custom components it says to list it a are reference to something in the application files in PCB board app, not the schematic app.. 

Dunno if anyone has experience using these apps. If its worth buyin the full veriins(perhaps the probs are fixed) or if there is anything better (from experwnce) out there for Mac.


Thx in advance.
 
 
Fuccimain said:
Hey there. I downloaded MCCad (schematic lite and pcb lite)and tried to run thru the tutorial, but the tutorial is ancient (like written for Mac os9)

The programs seem to work well with the exception of adding values for the component sizes and attributes etc.. For example, the way the tutorial says to add the values for resistors causes errors when I run the report for "mcCad parts" gives errors and for custom components it says to list it a are reference to something in the application files in PCB board app, not the schematic app.. 

Dunno if anyone has experience using these apps. If its worth buyin the full veriins(perhaps the probs are fixed) or if there is anything better (from experwnce) out there for Mac.
Thx in advance.

I looked at it, and I wonder why they haven't gotten around to updating it to be a real OS X 64-bit application.

Well, I know why -- it's a total rewrite of the user interface. But really they've have fifteen years.
 
Diptrace is available for mac osx. It's my favourite pcb software for windows, so I guess it should be just as good on a mac. It has good compatibility with eagle and the interface is really intuitive, yet powerful. There is a freeware version that limits your design to 300 pins, give it a try!

http://www.diptrace.com/download.php
 
coolm thanks.. i'll check it out.. I'm a noob at designing,. but I like the idea of being able to draw the schematics and have thme imported to the PCB software for layout and what not. 

thee is a freeware version of Eagle that limits you to 1 page schematic and 2 layer boards that are small in size.. I may try that too.

I'll check out dip trace,.. see if it does both schematics and pcb gerbers etc

I really wish they would update the mccad stuff.. seems like it would be cool,.. just their libraries suck and can't import any other libraries

thanks!
 
One more for Diptrace.

much more comprehensive user interface for layout and routing, and much more so for components creation. I just made a dfn-14 power chip with dual thermal pad in 2 minutes.... copy package, rearrange pins / functions an rename, that's it.

you can import eagle libraries as well, quite easy and good for connectors and the like.

one thing - eagle make nicer schematics for beginners, but you can make equally nice schematics with diptrace after some time....

did I mention linux / windows / osx support ;-)

cheers,

michael
 
got diptrace working.. after having to install some versions os quartz etc..

looks like it will work well.. curious though.. can anyone recommend some libaries for me to add.. specifically looking to add some disrete op amps like 2520 foot print etc.

peace!
s
 
Fuccimain said:
got diptrace working.. after having to install some versions os quartz etc..

looks like it will work well.. curious though.. can anyone recommend some libaries for me to add.. specifically looking to add some disrete op amps like 2520 foot print etc.

peace!
s
Many custom libraries on the internet are in eagle format. You need an installed copy of eagle to open them and export as an 'eagle script', which can be imported by the component editor in diptrace. If you take this approach, i can recommend you to get the wirepad, burr-brown and that-corp libraries at once.

But in most cases, it is quicker to create your own components as long as you know the dimensions of the footprint. Check out the guided tour on the diptrace website.
 
Here is some miscellaneous stuff I made, including API style DOA.

no particular order and nut fully verified yet ;-)
rename to parts.eli

cheers,

michael
 

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  • parts.lbr
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Thanks michael, I'll check it out.

So I'm messing with diptrace.. Did most of the tutorial, up to the copper filling section.. Not sure if I'll quite need that yet.

So for fun I wanna make my own circuit etc, was gonna try an api 325 line amp, curious about how to choose capacitors, whether metal film or electrolitic, I saw some people use nichicon radial electrolytic, some use vishay axial electrolitic aluminum,..  Curious how to learn about deciding what to use..

Curious if I should try to find libraries for those parts or if I specify the value say 100uf, if the size of the capacitor will be correct wether which one i use etc.. 

Any guidance for a noob would be amazing

Peace!
 
michael. i get this error when trying to open yr libary in eagle:

Error:

line 1, column 1: Start tag expected.
 
I guess alotta my 2nd to last post belongs in the theory and design section , so ill rephrase it a bit , whether I'm using 1 type if cap or resistor, how does the design software know why size the component is for the pcb.. I have to specify the exact manufacturer and value?

Also, having mad trouble importing libraries into diptrace from eagle..  I believe the eagle export is fine... It is the import in diptrace that's fuct... Empty libraries. I've seen other posts in other forums about the same problem. Trying to design my own DOA in diptrace now.. It's pretty hard to do.. Maybe there is a tutorial for designing own components.. Sorry I'm rambling now ..

Anyways. Thanks again everyone. Not sure if I'll keep using diptrace or try some eagle tutorials as all the libraries are for eagle ... Dunno
 
audiomixer said:
Here is some miscellaneous stuff I made, including API style DOA.

no particular order and nut fully verified yet ;-)
rename to parts.eli

cheers,

michael
Thanks! :)
Fuccimain said:
Thanks michael, I'll check it out.

So I'm messing with diptrace.. Did most of the tutorial, up to the copper filling section.. Not sure if I'll quite need that yet.

So for fun I wanna make my own circuit etc, was gonna try an api 325 line amp, curious about how to choose capacitors, whether metal film or electrolitic, I saw some people use nichicon radial electrolytic, some use vishay axial electrolitic aluminum,..  Curious how to learn about deciding what to use..

Curious if I should try to find libraries for those parts or if I specify the value say 100uf, if the size of the capacitor will be correct wether which one i use etc.. 

Any guidance for a noob would be amazing

Peace!
You will probably have to know the leg spacing for capacitors no matter what software you are using. If were talking radial electrolytics, 0.1", 0.2" and 0.3" are by far the most common options. Check the data sheet from the manufacturer. I have never built anything using DOA's, so i cannot give you any application specific advise. However, you can go very far by having a small assortment of panasonic FM's at home.

Once you know the leg spacing, adding them to the design is a piece of cake. In the "discrete" library, there are a few caps to choose from. You should see the patterns for the highlighed item in the left bottom corner. The different caps have names such as "cap 200 rp" which means 200 mils (0.2 inch) radial polarized(=electrolytic). Cap 300 is for square or ceramics. The AP suffix is for axial electrolytics. You can specify a value by right clicking any component and entering it. To show the value in schematic, you just go view -> part marking -> additional marking -> values. I sometimes add one letter to the value to show what kind of cap it is if the design requires it eg. 50pc = 50 pF ceramic. The approach for showing values on the board is similar.
Fuccimain said:
I guess alotta my 2nd to last post belongs in the theory and design section , so ill rephrase it a bit , whether I'm using 1 type if cap or resistor, how does the design software know why size the component is for the pcb.. I have to specify the exact manufacturer and value?

Also, having mad trouble importing libraries into diptrace from eagle..  I believe the eagle export is fine... It is the import in diptrace that's fuct... Empty libraries. I've seen other posts in other forums about the same problem. Trying to design my own DOA in diptrace now.. It's pretty hard to do.. Maybe there is a tutorial for designing own components.. Sorry I'm rambling now ..

Anyways. Thanks again everyone. Not sure if I'll keep using diptrace or try some eagle tutorials as all the libraries are for eagle ... Dunno
See if you can import the file attached... rename it to that-corp.scr. It worked for me.

The last 3 parts of the guided tour on their website shows how to design patterns.  ;)
 

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  • that-corp.lbr
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Fuccimain said:
michael. i get this error when trying to open yr libary in eagle:

Error:

line 1, column 1: Start tag expected.

its a diptrace lib.... could not post it without changing the name... just rename to *.eli and use with diptrace.

when selecting passives you should use the right footprint. the component value does not influence the footprint as far as I know. making decisions is tough, but you can always come back if you seen that a chance makes sense, even in the layout part of the program.

- michael
 
SkunkFunk said:
Diptrace is available for mac osx. It's my favourite pcb software for windows, so I guess it should be just as good on a mac. It has good compatibility with eagle and the interface is really intuitive, yet powerful. There is a freeware version that limits your design to 300 pins, give it a try! http://www.diptrace.com/download.php

It runs within WINE, which is a suboptimal solution ;)

-a
 
Fuccimain said:
I guess alotta my 2nd to last post belongs in the theory and design section , so ill rephrase it a bit , whether I'm using 1 type if cap or resistor, how does the design software know why size the component is for the pcb.. I have to specify the exact manufacturer and value?

Welcome to the area of CAD which engenders the most discussion!

This all depends on the CAD software you're using, but in general: you will have symbol libraries and footprint libraries. The idea is that you have to marry a symbol with a footprint.  How you do this depends on the software you are using.

What professionals do is to build libraries in which a symbol ALWAYS has a map to a footprint. There are those who will argue that this pollutes your library, in that you might have a dozen NPN transistors in the library and they all look the same. Please, ignore those people. You do NOT want to design and fab a board which has a TO-92 footprint for a part you bought in SOT-23.

So, examples. Kicad has symbol libraries and footprint ("module") libraries. Each symbol has a field called Footprint. If you put a valid footprint name in that field, it will be included in the netlist you export to the PCB layout. Then when you import that netlist into PCBnew, it matches the footprint name with something in the module libraries and thus that footprint will be in your design ready for placement.

If the symbol's Footprint field is blank, you have to run an interstitial program called CvPCB, with which you manually match footprints to symbols. This is how you fuck up and choose the wrong footprint for a part. Don't use this workflow.

Now with Altium, you have schematic (symbol) libraries and footprint libraries, and the marriage is done in what they call an Integrated Library. For actual designs you always use the Integrated library and never the other two, which are basically "source" libraries. When you pick a component from the Integrated library, you get the symbol, the footprint, a 3D model, and whatever else you've compiled into it.

I don't know how this is all done with EAGLE, as I've never used it.

Here's where life gets interesting. You have a footprint library with R0805 and C0805 and R1206 and C1206 for two different sizes of SMT resistors and caps. But you have all different values for resistance and capacitance. So you create four symbols, say, R0805, C0805, R1206, C1206, and embed in those symbols the footprint name. The "value" field remains blank, and you give it a useful value when you place the symbol on the schematic. (Remember that the value matters only to the BOM, the footprint matters to the layout.)

You're still left with the very real problem of generating a BOM with generic values for resistance and footprint and no orderable part number. The ways I've seen this problem handled in the past vary.

In one case, we had a "resistors" library which had an entry for every single resistance value we used. Embedded in the symbol was a unique company part number. A back-end database lookup mapped the company part number to a vendor's orderable part number (or multiple options for multiple sources). The resistor library could have easily hundreds of parts.

Where I work now, the symbol includes a "family" part number. All 0805 1% 1/8 W resistors are a family. All 0805 0.1% 1/8 W resistors are a different family. (The idea is that there is only one variable within a family, usually value.) Thus the symbol library includes a handful of different resistor families. (The symbols themselves look identical on the schematic.) The BOM exports family part number and value and a database tool maps the two into an orderable part number. For devices where the "family" only has one entry such as an op-amp, then the lookup is simpler.

All of the schemes are intended to make sure that the schematic, the BOM, the footprints and the stuff you order are all correct. Manual entry of anything is to be avoided.

-a
 
heya,

thanks for all this info.. i'm gonna go thru it all in detail.

skunk.. i got the THat corp libary to import.. but still couldn't get Michaels.. even tried to replace the extension and still nothing..

as far as eagle libaries.. maybe i'm exporting them wrong? I'm doing it exactly as it says on the web.. just nothing opens up in dip trace ..

gonna email diptrace support about it,

thanks again

s
 
after copying the library to a suitable place with the right filemane ending (*.eli)  (- lib folder in diptrace or user library folder...) you need to activate the library for use:

open a new schematic
menu library / library setup
add library to the right pane.

you might have to check the manual on the details. after that the library is available. this applies the eagle imported libraries too.

cheers,

Michael
 
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