Another crazy newbie idea
« on: August 14, 2013, 09:43:55 PM »
This

http://faust.grame.fr/

plus an arm processor and a/d/a conversion = custom live fx.

What do you guys think?

Many thanks in advance

Joe


Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2013, 08:16:42 AM »
why not a laptop with max?

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2013, 09:09:53 AM »
Yes, there are about 2 people who perform like this. A pedal/box, however, is far simpler to configure and less prone to error. Line6 exists basically because people don't want  to mess with that stuff.

I know Max pretty well and I still would prefer an arm-based pedal. Just simpler, is all.

ruairioflaherty

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2013, 01:31:57 PM »
To me a digital pedal lives or dies based on the algorithms.  For example I wouldn't use the Line 6 stuff but love the Strymon pedals (conversion/analogue dry path etc are factors too). 




Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 02:33:09 PM »
Well, thats just my point; let people write their own algorithms. I'm positive I can do better than this; http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/marser/owl-programmable-effects-pedal/posts

An added feature is that we can put in firmware encryption so if people want to sell soft fx for it they can.

Edit: Ruairi, would you mind drawing a block diagram of how you would expect the wet/dry signal to go, or even just link to a schematic you like.

Thanks

Joe
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 03:10:59 PM by jamesson »

ruairioflaherty

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2013, 06:03:51 PM »
Well, thats just my point; let people write their own algorithms. I'm positive I can do better than this; http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/marser/owl-programmable-effects-pedal/posts

Interesting project.  What do you see in Owl that needs to be improved?

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An added feature is that we can put in firmware encryption so if people want to sell soft fx for it they can.

Smart.

Quote
Edit: Ruairi, would you mind drawing a block diagram of how you would expect the wet/dry signal to go, or even just link to a schematic you like.

No need for a drawing.  The dry path must stay analog and the DSP effected path is added to dry signal, this is definitely a part of why the Strymon stuff is so good, as well as very good AD/DA.

 
Edit - just listened to the samples on the OWL page, I realize it's early days but it all sounds pretty rotten.  "To me a digital pedal lives or dies based on the algorithms." 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 06:10:25 PM by ruairioflaherty »

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2013, 07:16:02 PM »
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What do you see in Owl that needs to be improved?

The UI is useless. We need an LCD screen. Lots of other options possible, including phone jacks for added control pedals, midi, even an sd recorder. Many many options. My original suggestion was, use Faust (http://faust.grame.fr/). Pretty popular, made by IRCAM, and theres already a java port (albeit somewhat half-assed).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 07:23:27 PM by jamesson »

ruairioflaherty

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 07:54:52 PM »
Quote
What do you see in Owl that needs to be improved?

The UI is useless. We need an LCD screen. Lots of other options possible, including phone jacks for added control pedals, midi, even an sd recorder. Many many options. My original suggestion was, use Faust (http://faust.grame.fr/). Pretty popular, made by IRCAM, and theres already a java port (albeit somewhat half-assed).

The UI is the same as every other guitar pedal ever! Sort of a tried and tested approach don't you think. Sure it would be nice to know what each knob did but I'd be just as happy sticking some tape on there. As soon as we get into menus on a guitar pedal you've lost me, it's all about immediacy.

I'll ask you the same question I did in the other thread. Do you actually play guitar (or maybe synth)?

You've heard of the concept of feature creep?  Teles are great right?  So let's "improve" - Imagine a tele with a extra pickup and a 5 way switch with phase options, an active eq, automatic locking tuners etc etc.  Now it's just a complicated mess.  What makes a tele special is that is just complex enough to get the job done, remove one thing and it stops working.  Beautiful, elegant design.

Why do I need an SD recorder when I have an iPhone and a laptop?  Extra control ports? maybe....

If you're going to trump Owl you need to understand what people want that their box doesn't do.  $30+K says their prospective clients dig the idea.

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 08:16:05 PM »
No, I do not play guitar. Youre right in that I need to find ways to beat Owl. Faust I think is a biggie. If we cannot run actual VST on it then this is the next best thing, and there seems to be a big user/developer base. Perhaps you are right to dismiss lcd out of hand, midi maybe not so much. Plenty of things you can do with tap tempo, even more with midi and multiple pedals. Now, granted this may be best served by two different products but as I said to begin with my main selling point would be faust. I can afford to add an LCD screen in prototype, and would like to, for practice. It just strikes me as potentially messy if you have goodness knows how many fx loaded /chained on it and all you have to keep track is some tape. In case I was unclear, I expect to be able to chain multiple fx, hardware permitting.

Again, thanks for lending your brains and experience. Guitar pedals fall more under the category of things i can rapidly prototype for little $. Another idea I had, a multitrack looper/recorder. The interface would be a bit challenging but it could do double duty as a live loop player and multitracker.

Andy Peters

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 08:33:58 PM »
Perhaps you are right to dismiss lcd out of hand

Unless it's nothing more complicated than a 2-line character LCD, don't put one on a stomp box, unless you want to spend your time servicing customer returns. There's a reason these things are called "stomp boxes."

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Another idea I had, a multitrack looper/recorder. The interface would be a bit challenging but it could do double duty as a live loop player and multitracker.

Who's the target audience? DOD has been making loop pedals for decades, so if your market is the guitarist, you have to make it cheaper than the DOD box they already have.

If it's for, say, the "laptop" performer, then, well, he's already got a MacBook Pro and a copy of MainStage, and everything you can do in your multitrack recorder/looper, he can do with what he's already got.

As a front-of-house guy, I use MainStage for looping and for reverbs. Very handy in the smaller places where outboard is lacking.

-a

"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band"


Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 08:42:55 PM »
*looks at mainstage* for $30? I hate you andy peters, after over 20 years of happy PC use now I want a mac =P.

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2013, 08:44:37 PM »
Re broken LCD, fine, I'll give you a midi footswitch with purchase, I dont care. No buttons on the box.

critterkllr

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 10:58:52 AM »
I'd say around 98% of the guitar players I know (including myself) want simplicity. That's the beauty of Strymon pedals. You can go in and edit them, or you can use the controls on top to feel like you're playing with analog pedals. If you want some inspiration for something new, check out the Eventide H9. The trick to a successful DSP effect is outshine the competition with your algorithms, ease of use, and "behind the scenes" features that you can dive into, but aren't necessary to get a great sound. Basically, the have to sound as close to what they're emulating as possible easily, but can be delved into further and further if needed. Everybody hates when the guitar player takes up a chunk of practice fiddling with a pedal.

For your looper, are you talking about something like a Boomerang or EHX 45000?

Re: Another crazy newbie idea
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2013, 09:15:27 PM »
I'd say around 98% of the guitar players I know (including myself) want simplicity.

Likewise.  A pedal with menus and lots of options is not good;  it's just a bunch of things to go wrong at a gig.