Extend soundcard for ext. hardware?

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weiss

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Joined
Jun 16, 2014
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hey guys! I have a FF400 which sends via ADAT (optical) to the MOTU 828. The 8 analog outs of the motu go into my hardware devices and then back to the motu, now i want to connect it via ADAT to the RME again. But obviously i am missing something here. The ADAT input is directly going into the ADAT output back to my Fireface and bypassing the hardware gear. How can i tell the motu to send the processed analog signal back to the ADAT out? Is it even possible?
Any help would be great!

best,
weiss
 
weiss said:
hey guys! I have a FF400 which sends via ADAT (optical) to the MOTU 828. The 8 analog outs of the motu go into my hardware devices and then back to the motu, now i want to connect it via ADAT to the RME again. But obviously i am missing something here. The ADAT input is directly going into the ADAT output back to my Fireface and bypassing the hardware gear. How can i tell the motu to send the processed analog signal back to the ADAT out? Is it even possible?
Any help would be great!

I have an 828.

I think you can do it in the CueMix FX  program, using the 828's internal buses. This program sets up multiple mixes inside the 828, and you just have to choose the particular output you want and route (and mix) whichever inputs to it that you want to use as sources.

You should be able to do it from the 828's front panel but I find that user interface to be somewhat difficult :)

You can definitely do it routing through a DAW.

-a
 
Andy Peters said:
weiss said:
hey guys! I have a FF400 which sends via ADAT (optical) to the MOTU 828. The 8 analog outs of the motu go into my hardware devices and then back to the motu, now i want to connect it via ADAT to the RME again. But obviously i am missing something here. The ADAT input is directly going into the ADAT output back to my Fireface and bypassing the hardware gear. How can i tell the motu to send the processed analog signal back to the ADAT out? Is it even possible?
Any help would be great!

I have an 828.

I think you can do it in the CueMix FX  program, using the 828's internal buses. This program sets up multiple mixes inside the 828, and you just have to choose the particular output you want and route (and mix) whichever inputs to it that you want to use as sources.

You should be able to do it from the 828's front panel but I find that user interface to be somewhat difficult :)

You can definitely do it routing through a DAW.

-a

Thanks for your reply, andy. I already tried that (on both, front panel settings and cue mix software). It seems it is only possible to set the incoming ADAT signal to either analog outputs or back to the outgoing ADAT, so the sound isn't processed at all. Do you use external hardware with the motu? (i have 828 mk II btw)
 
weiss said:
Andy Peters said:
I think you can do it in the CueMix FX  program, using the 828's internal buses. This program sets up multiple mixes inside the 828, and you just have to choose the particular output you want and route (and mix) whichever inputs to it that you want to use as sources.

You should be able to do it from the 828's front panel but I find that user interface to be somewhat difficult :)

You can definitely do it routing through a DAW.

Thanks for your reply, andy. I already tried that (on both, front panel settings and cue mix software). It seems it is only possible to set the incoming ADAT signal to either analog outputs or back to the outgoing ADAT, so the sound isn't processed at all. Do you use external hardware with the motu? (i have 828 mk II btw)

Mine is the mk II too. I generally don't patch external analog hardware into the thing, although I was doing some tests and I patched a compressor into it as an insert (in Logic).
I do use an external 8-channel ADC box connected to the 828 via ADAT, and that works as expected.

I guess I don't know what you want to do. Do you want to send out to the external analog box via one of the 828's analog outs, then have the external box return to one of the FF's analog inputs? Basically an insert?

You should be able to do that, although I think that doing the assignments in the DAW is a lot simpler than doing it in CueMix or from the front panel.
 
Andy Peters said:
Mine is the mk II too. I generally don't patch external analog hardware into the thing, although I was doing some tests and I patched a compressor into it as an insert (in Logic).
I do use an external 8-channel ADC box connected to the 828 via ADAT, and that works as expected.
Ah i see. This is then the best solution i think. But i actually wanted to solve this without buying any further equipment.

Andy Peters said:
I guess I don't know what you want to do. Do you want to send out to the external analog box via one of the 828's analog outs, then have the external box return to one of the FF's analog inputs? Basically an insert? You should be able to do that, although I think that doing the assignments in the DAW is a lot simpler than doing it in CueMix or from the front panel.

Exactly. I want to insert each piece of hardware individually and at the same time in pro tools. Like an insert, yes. And therefore i have to send the signal to the motu first, route it from the ADAT IN into the ANALOG OUT through the hardware and then through the ANALOG IN back to the ADAT OUT to the RME fireface back to PT.
I hate this cue mix software. No options there. but i found no options either in PT because if i am using the standalone mode, the connections don't appear in PT.

I did a simple drawing of my concept. Problem is that i can't set any connection between the Analog In and ADAT out of the MOTU.
 

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weiss said:
I did a simple drawing of my concept. Problem is that i can't set any connection between the Analog In and ADAT out of the MOTU.

Ohhhh, I see, you are connecting the FF400 to the DAW over FireWire, and you want to use the 828 as an I/O expander. And without being able to route from ADAT IN x to analog out y and then from analog in z to ADAT OUT w, you can't do that. And I don't know if that's possible (I'm away from my set-up now, I will check later.)

If you're on a Mac, create an aggregate audio device combining the FF400 and the 828. Both plug into the Mac via their own FW connections. You have to sort out which inputs and outputs are which, but there's no futzing with the ADAT stuff, you just use the analog I/O as you wish.

If you don't have a Mac, get one :)

-a
 
Probably a silly question but why don't you plug the 828 straight to your computer?
What's the use of the ff400 in such set up?
 
Andy Peters said:
Ohhhh, I see, you are connecting the FF400 to the DAW over FireWire, and you want to use the 828 as an I/O expander. And without being able to route from ADAT IN x to analog out y and then from analog in z to ADAT OUT w, you can't do that. And I don't know if that's possible (I'm away from my set-up now, I will check later.)

If you're on a Mac, create an aggregate audio device combining the FF400 and the 828. Both plug into the Mac via their own FW connections. You have to sort out which inputs and outputs are which, but there's no futzing with the ADAT stuff, you just use the analog I/O as you wish.

If you don't have a Mac, get one :)

correct, that's the problem. i'm using a pc for audio purposes.. so no aggregate device possible (besides asio4all - but then i'd have to deal with clock problems and all that crap..)

warpie said:
Probably a silly question but why don't you plug the 828 straight to your computer?
What's the use of the ff400 in such set up?

like andy already said. i wanted to use the motu as an I/O expander. When i started making music i never thought i'd build so much external gear ;) I have 2x outputs of the ff going to my main monitors, 2x outputs to the headphones and 2x outputs for two avantone monitors, leaving me 2 outputs for hardware. Obviously not enough. On the other hand i am using 2 inputs for my keyboards/synths and 2 for different mics.
I know it sounds very complicated for a home studio. At this point i think it is best to sell all together and buy an interface with more I/O connections..

thanks for your replies!
 
Why don't you buy an adat-to-analog converter then?
I have an 828 and I used to have this as an expander.

It's unbalanced and rather old but probably you can find something better.

With this setup I had a total of 16 line I/O from a single 828  :)
 
warpie said:
Why don't you buy an adat-to-analog converter then?
I have an 828 and I used to have this as an expander.
It's unbalanced and rather old but probably you can find something better.
With this setup I had a total of 16 line I/O from a single 828  :)

now this is exactly what i expected of the motu to do (unfortunately it didn't work out)! But, i'd need a second device then to convert analog back to adat ;) all in one device would be much more comfortable and cheaper than two separate converters..
 
I'm using a RME UFX with 16 channels of  ADAT the way you want. I'm sure it's doable.
Have you checked the IN/OUT settings in Pro Tools?
I configure Totalmix the way I want it and save it as a Workspace.
In Pro Tools I import that setting in IN/OUT configurations (template) to input, output, inserts and busses.
I delete the existing paths already in Pro Tools. I have to do this for every session using this template.
In my example my ADAT IN/OUT start at channel 15 as ADAT-1.
(UFX: 1-8 analog in/out, 9-12 mic in/headphones 1&2, 13-14 AES/EBU in/out, 15-22 adat 1-8 in/out, 23-30 adat 9-16 in/out)
Also check the in/out configuration in the MOTU.

When I first started doing this with Totalmix FX I run into feedback because I didn't understand how to set Totalmix up.
Now I know better...

Hope this helpes and good luck!

Best regards
//Magnus
 
Thanks Magnus,

i know this is possible with the RME, but the MOTU is the problem in this case, not the RME. I also have 16 channels of ADAT in sum but the MOTU can't handle them all at the same time
 
weiss said:
Thanks Magnus,

i know this is possible with the RME, but the MOTU is the problem in this case, not the RME. I also have 16 channels of ADAT in sum but the MOTU can't handle them all at the same time

You should have no problem using the 828 with something like the Behringer ADA-8000. (Or the Fireface, for that matter.)

Remember how the inputs are set up on the 828: the two mic/line inputs, followed by the eight analog line ins, followed by the eight ADAT ins, followed by the two S/PDIF ins. Outputs are similar. So just connect ADAT out of the 828 to ADAT in of an expander (with DACs), and connect ADAT IN on the 828 to the ADAT OUT of an expander (with ADCs).

It really does just work.
 
Andy Peters said:
weiss said:
Thanks Magnus,

i know this is possible with the RME, but the MOTU is the problem in this case, not the RME. I also have 16 channels of ADAT in sum but the MOTU can't handle them all at the same time

You should have no problem using the 828 with something like the Behringer ADA-8000. (Or the Fireface, for that matter.)

Remember how the inputs are set up on the 828: the two mic/line inputs, followed by the eight analog line ins, followed by the eight ADAT ins, followed by the two S/PDIF ins. Outputs are similar. So just connect ADAT out of the 828 to ADAT in of an expander (with DACs), and connect ADAT IN on the 828 to the ADAT OUT of an expander (with ADCs).

It really does just work.

Yes, tomorrow i will try it exactly the other way round. like you explained. and this would be even better because the a/d of the motu is not as good as the rme :)
 
So now i tried to use the motu as my main sound card and connected it to the fireface (standalone mode) via adat to insert the hardware. but now i can't see any adat ins and outs in my audio software. it is only showing the analog ins and outs and spdif. In the motu i can't make any adat settings, they don't show up when connected to the computer. i think i am too  stupid :(
 
weiss said:
So now i tried to use the motu as my main sound card and connected it to the fireface (standalone mode) via adat to insert the hardware. but now i can't see any adat ins and outs in my audio software. it is only showing the analog ins and outs and spdif. In the motu i can't make any adat settings, they don't show up when connected to the computer. i think i am too  stupid :(

I can't help with PC audio stuff. Get a Mac!

-a
 
weiss said:
know what, i really think about it..

Sounds to me that this is a possible limitation with your device (MOTU) and/or Pro Tools (in the latter configuration with MOTU connected to it), and not the OS. I'm guessing you'll just end up blowing more time and money if you swap computer/OS rather than figure this out.

If you post a link to the manual of the MOTU I'll gladly read it to see if you've missed something. Sometimes it's the little things that break a setup.
 
mattiasNYC said:
weiss said:
know what, i really think about it..

Sounds to me that this is a possible limitation with your device (MOTU) and/or Pro Tools (in the latter configuration with MOTU connected to it), and not the OS. I'm guessing you'll just end up blowing more time and money if you swap computer/OS rather than figure this out.

If you post a link to the manual of the MOTU I'll gladly read it to see if you've missed something. Sometimes it's the little things that break a setup.

It is indeed a limitation of the motu. btw i tried it on cubase and reaper as well..
here is the link: http://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/firewire-usb-audio/828mkII_Manual_Win.pdf
thanks for looking into this, didn't find anything though..
 
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