kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #360 on: June 17, 2018, 02:26:46 AM »
Eyeing these hard. But my racks only do 16v..is that okay??

Edit: read the manual. Looks like I'll be good, however, does that mean I can still use DOA? or just ICs?
Hello,


yes,it´s in the manual.You have choices from running them on both dual rails at the same time if you want,e.g. eq on +/-16vdc and doas on +/-24vdc.It is „programmed“ by jumpers/ptcs close to the card edge connector.
Also you can run doas on the 16vdc rails,they will have a bit lower headroom then,but don ´t become „bad“ soundwise.

Best regards,


Udo.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 02:33:20 AM by kante1603 »


Blackdawg

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #361 on: June 17, 2018, 12:34:31 PM »
Hello,


yes,it´s in the manual.You have choices from running them on both dual rails at the same time if you want,e.g. eq on +/-16vdc and doas on +/-24vdc.It is „programmed“ by jumpers/ptcs close to the card edge connector.
Also you can run doas on the 16vdc rails,they will have a bit lower headroom then,but don ´t become „bad“ soundwise.

Best regards,


Udo.

Thanks for Clarifying Udo.

Part of me is regretting not having a 24v rail in my TAC racks..but too late now!  I haven't had issues with 16v, but then again, haven't experienced 24v so I don't know what I'm missing  ;D

Will have to get a pair of these!

Blackdawg

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #362 on: June 18, 2018, 01:22:32 AM »
Has  anyone had any luck making these stepped controlled for recall?

Cool711

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #363 on: September 11, 2018, 11:01:24 AM »
Hey guys,

First time posting here; trying to figure out if to get these.

My main question is: what is the difference quality / components wise to these and the GML 8200?

Why does the GML cost > $6000, and these so much less? I'm having some cognitive dissonance with the fact that these are more than $5000 cheaper without there being some major difference (and find it hard to believe that the difference is just based on the name. Sure; $2-$3000 would be one thing, but this much of a difference?)

Thanks!

r2d2

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #364 on: September 12, 2018, 05:43:27 AM »
Has  anyone had any luck making these stepped controlled for recall?

(..hoping  to not bore someone, repeating things written in previous posts)

some year ago i seen a diy project with rotary switch on frequency selector and +/- gain pots
all resistors for steps positions , selected and matched minimum at 1%
(check how many hours of work it require , all the rest apart .. , opamp match included )

for the recall automation it is possible use motorized rotary switches…
but seem that only very expensive type can be used for a quality professional Eq

expensive cost apart  , it is necessary write the software for control and re-call (… C+ protocol ?)
and build the circuit for make it run too .…

much cool as "easy" ?  ???

Hey guys,

First time posting here; trying to figure out if to get these.

My main question is: what is the difference quality / components wise to these and the GML 8200?

Why does the GML cost > $6000, and these so much less? I'm having some cognitive dissonance with the fact that these are more than $5000 cheaper without there being some major difference (and find it hard to believe that the difference is just based on the name. Sure; $2-$3000 would be one thing, but this much of a difference?)

Thanks!

stepped expensive hi quality rotary switches apart ,
and all the time required to hand match the resistors for the frequency selectors and +/- gain pots
the GML opamps are  designed , made/assembled  and matched by GML (@ Manley Labs Factory)

The Sontec by Igor can be build also with hi quality (and cost) IC opamp ,
and DOA for a more "analog" type ,

The original sound  of Sontec Eq  come from the type of  the IC opamp
today no more available on the market ,

why a transparent clean analog EQ
with actual DAW full of digital transparent EQ plug ins  ?

it is not better an analog-tube-inductors  EQ with cool  "color" and harmonic distortion/saturation  ?
(……. "dry & wet blender" included as well … )

a new diy "challenge"  ?   ;)

cheers



« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 04:01:51 AM by r2d2 »
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

SIXTYNINER

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #365 on: September 19, 2018, 12:39:52 PM »

why a transparent clean analog EQ
with actual DAW full of digital transparent EQ plug ins  ?

it is not better an analog-tube-inductors  EQ with cool  "color" and harmonic distortion/saturation  ?
(……. "dry & wet blender" included as well … )

a new diy "challenge"  ?   ;)

+ 1 here
>>" 1 Picture say what billions words cannot "<< - >>"SMD Kill the DIY STAR"<<
Why in the  forum  if no share

Cool711

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #366 on: September 29, 2018, 02:48:31 PM »
Thanks for the reply, and sorry, but I found it was a bit hard to understand.

To be clear, the multi-thousand $ difference in cost is because GML makes their own match Op-Amps?

And that's it?


OTRM

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #367 on: October 16, 2018, 02:53:08 PM »
Been following this thread with great interest. Thinking about putting a pair to use in the mastering chain. I do have a few Qs....

- How would you classify the sound/character of this EQ?
- Do you consider it to be mastering quality? IE: transparent, clean, not too colored, etc...
- Read earlier about possibly using stepped controls. Anyone done this successfully? For all controls - gain, freq and Q...?
- Also would want to knock the max gain down to +- 6dB in 0.5 dB steps. Anyone figured out the components for this?

Also would like to hear users chime in on the sonic qualities.
Thanks for any help.
OTRM

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #368 on: October 22, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »
Been following this thread with great interest. Thinking about putting a pair to use in the mastering chain. I do have a few Qs....

- How would you classify the sound/character of this EQ?
- Do you consider it to be mastering quality? IE: transparent, clean, not too colored, etc...
- Read earlier about possibly using stepped controls. Anyone done this successfully? For all controls - gain, freq and Q...?
- Also would want to knock the max gain down to +- 6dB in 0.5 dB steps. Anyone figured out the components for this?

Also would like to hear users chime in on the sonic qualities.
Thanks for any help.
OTRM

Hi ORTM,
I'd be happy to give my personal opinion fwiw. I've used a few EQ's, and had the pleasure to hear a Sontec with original opamps in the past.

- Using the suggested opamps in the BOM on +-16v rails, I noticed that it is clean, yet musical, while being unobtrusive. At no point could I "hear" the EQ as an additional layer, as it sounds very natural without having as heavy a vibe as a Sontec. Not overtly surgical, but excellent for doing what it's supposed to.

- Yes. Especially as you can mod it to +-6db easily (see note below) and it is fairly transparent. I find myself using more of this EQ to gently shape where other EQ's may be a little too forward or obvious.

- You *can* however, it looks as though that would require a different housing, as the PCB's are designed to fit within the 500 series format. It is doable, but may need a different chassis, PSU, cabling to pots/switches, etc. This may require lots of work to come up with your own solution depending on your needs.

- @Onlymeeee describes this on page 14, reply #276,  simply by swapping out R69s for 51k. You can incorporate stepped log switches for gain, as long as you have the same total value (50k?) as the center tapped pots... but the maths to figure out the +-.5db steps is beyond me.

Best,
Brian

OTRM

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #369 on: November 02, 2018, 05:15:22 PM »
Hi ORTM,
I'd be happy to give my personal opinion fwiw. I've used a few EQ's, and had the pleasure to hear a Sontec with original opamps in the past.

- Using the suggested opamps in the BOM on +-16v rails, I noticed that it is clean, yet musical, while being unobtrusive. At no point could I "hear" the EQ as an additional layer, as it sounds very natural without having as heavy a vibe as a Sontec. Not overtly surgical, but excellent for doing what it's supposed to.

- Yes. Especially as you can mod it to +-6db easily (see note below) and it is fairly transparent. I find myself using more of this EQ to gently shape where other EQ's may be a little too forward or obvious.

- You *can* however, it looks as though that would require a different housing, as the PCB's are designed to fit within the 500 series format. It is doable, but may need a different chassis, PSU, cabling to pots/switches, etc. This may require lots of work to come up with your own solution depending on your needs.

- @Onlymeeee describes this on page 14, reply #276,  simply by swapping out R69s for 51k. You can incorporate stepped log switches for gain, as long as you have the same total value (50k?) as the center tapped pots... but the maths to figure out the +-.5db steps is beyond me.

Best,
Brian
Thanks for the input Brian


kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #370 on: November 03, 2018, 01:44:51 AM »

Hello,
you wrote:
You can incorporate stepped log switches for gain, as long as you have the same total value (50k?) as the center tapped pots... but the maths to figure out the +-.5db steps is beyond me.


The gain as well as Q is the easy part to make them stepped switches,they are linear,not log.!
For a series string („adding“) switch just divide 50k by the number of steps (minus 1),and that‘s it for the gain.
So for a -say- 23 steps switch it is 2k273 for each step.
In +/-6dB mode the steps will roughly be 0.55dB then,not too bad I‘d say!

Choose the closest value you can find.The goal is to get the overall resistance of roughly 50k.



For Q I‘d take just 5 or 6 steps,a high resolution Q is not necessary in my opinion,plus the switch is less expensive.


For frequency I had the same questions,to calculate the steps was beyond my capabilities.
Reading this thread carefully answers your question.It is all here.
Member Harpo has been so kind to calculate it for us!Again!
Either you search for „banana bread“ here or go back two pages to reply #320.


Hope to have helped,


Udo.

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #371 on: December 18, 2018, 05:22:00 PM »
Hi Udo-

I'm curious, did you ever complete the +/- 6dB version with the stepped pots? If so, which pots did you end up using?

It looked like you were going to build it but I couldn't tell if you ended up doing it.
Thanks!

kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #372 on: December 18, 2018, 07:57:07 PM »
Hi Udo-

I'm curious, did you ever complete the +/- 6dB version with the stepped pots? If so, which pots did you end up using?

It looked like you were going to build it but I couldn't tell if you ended up doing it.
Thanks!


Hello and welcome to the forum,


still not fully completed,but the audio works fine on the bench.Have still to do a final frontpanel layout because I might implement some extra features.I might tweak the high frequency band a bit too.
For now I don‘t have the time to work on it.But it is a very nice and fun project.
For the pots.....I didn‘t use any.....you mean rotary switches,yes?
Lorlin are o.k. for now for the Q,for the rest I used the blue ones sold by Uraltone.You can find them in the bay too.
It depends on what quality you want and if you can find or need 23 or 24 or even higher (!) position switches.
If you have your house for sale go for Elma etc...... ;D


Best regards,


Udo.

john12ax7

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #373 on: December 18, 2018, 08:18:39 PM »
Are Lorlin switches really that bad compared to Grayhill and Elma? Have never used them.

Are you keeping things 500 series with the switches?  I've considered putting the pcbs in a rack case and then make it switched.

kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #374 on: December 18, 2018, 08:26:59 PM »
Are Lorlin switches really that bad compared to Grayhill and Elma? Have never used them.

Are you keeping things 500 series with the switches?  I've considered putting the pcbs in a rack case and then make it switched.
Lorlins are o.k. for now,I used some „encapsuled gold contact“ types that I had here.
If you have the money then yes,go for Elma or Grayhill.
I basically left the 500 series pcbs as they were,just used the small pot pcbs for wire distributing instead.Easier than soldering on the IDC connectors/-pads.I also went for 24vdc for DOAs.
All will reside in a 19“ rack (I make it stereo),impossible to cram this amount of switched pots into 500 format.


Hope to have helped,


Udo.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 08:31:29 PM by kante1603 »

john12ax7

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #375 on: December 18, 2018, 08:51:54 PM »
Yes,  thank you.

Do the Lorlin have reliability issues due to the plastic construction?

I've also been looking at some rotarys from C&K and E-switch.  Mostly I've used Grayhill in the past,  but the pitch on the right angle leads is really small which makes for a tougher soldering job.

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #376 on: December 18, 2018, 09:27:05 PM »
Hello and welcome to the forum,
Thanks! Glad to be here. I've been a longtime lurker and finally decided I want to try building some of these wonderful projects.

For the pots.....I didn‘t use any.....you mean rotary switches,yes?
Oops, yes. I meant rotary switches.  That's what I get for reading through the entire thread in one sitting. Ha.

Thanks so much for the information, I am considering a 2u rack mount stereo version using rotary switches and modifying the boost/cut to a +/- 6dB range.  It'll probably be fairly slow, but I'll post updates if I decide to go for it.

kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #377 on: December 19, 2018, 01:56:26 AM »
Yes,  thank you.

Do the Lorlin have reliability issues due to the plastic construction?

I've also been looking at some rotarys from C&K and E-switch.  Mostly I've used Grayhill in the past,  but the pitch on the right angle leads is really small which makes for a tougher soldering job.
Hello again,


Lorlins are definetely not super reliable,though the before mentioned types did their job so far.For my final build I consider to swap them to Grayhills or other more reliable types.
Soldering wires to Grayhills is no fun,promised!Have done that before......
But there are small pcbs existing which can hold the switches plus resistors.
If you‘re in the US e.g. look here (scroll down a bit):


http://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=51_133


For the EU maybe ask in the forum here,I‘m not sure if member ruffrecords (Ian Thompson-Bell) did something like that a while ago.....?


Best regards,


Udo.




kante1603

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #378 on: December 19, 2018, 02:08:06 AM »
Thanks! Glad to be here. I've been a longtime lurker and finally decided I want to try building some of these wonderful projects.
Oops, yes. I meant rotary switches.  That's what I get for reading through the entire thread in one sitting. Ha.

Thanks so much for the information, I am considering a 2u rack mount stereo version using rotary switches and modifying the boost/cut to a +/- 6dB range.  It'll probably be fairly slow, but I'll post updates if I decide to go for it.
Hello,


yes,take your time,patience is the key.
The kit is straight forward and easy to build,Adjustments are clearly described and no vodoo.
For the switches just be patient and prepare the resistors well,especially match them for good stereo tracking.
You can make the single bands‘ gain/cut switchable between say +/- 6 or +/- 12dB,it is just one resistor per band.


Have fun,


best regards,


Udo.

Re: 500 series Sontec / GML type eq
« Reply #379 on: February 07, 2019, 09:16:00 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Just built two of these and I am now putting power though them and doing my initial testing.  I built it using the Letter C configuration and my voltage numbers looks ok but just curious if I am using IC's in DOA4 and DOA5 should I still be getting a little over 24vdc on pins 4 and 7?  Or do I want it to be down to 18vdc?  I just don't want to fry my IC's in the DOA4 and DOA5 spots.  The filter rails, I think thats what they are called, are reading a little above 18vdc.  Should put in my IC's?

Thanks in advance.