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Happy New Year!


mattiasNYC

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1420 on: January 10, 2017, 12:42:26 AM »
But I get it:  it's always obstructionism when the "other team" is doing it, and good political sense when your side benefits.  You can hardly blame the Democrats for subscribing to a winning play.  The Republicans have already shown there is absolutely no political downside to just saying no to everything, so why not?

You're absolutely right, and I wish there was a like-button to save some space. I think there was one at one point, or a "thanks" button or something.


dmp

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1421 on: January 10, 2017, 05:19:28 PM »
Quote
They may have been holding back some really juicy stuff to use as blackmail or to further discredit her administration after she was in office (too late to play it now).

Today's testimony by Intelligence services revealed Republican's were hacked as well last year, with Russia withholding any release of info, and they believe Russia may have damaging info on Trump.

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1422 on: January 10, 2017, 06:51:18 PM »
"Comey later added that "there was evidence of hacking directed at state-level organizations, state-level campaigns, and the RNC, but old domains of the RNC, meaning old emails they weren't using. None of that was released."

Comey said there was no sign "that the Trump campaign or the current RNC was successfully hacked."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans-hacked-russia/

"Recall just last week, Chuck Schumer said Trump was being "really dumb" for challenging IC [the intelligence community] given all the ways they have to destroy someone"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/818957757579751426
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 07:04:03 PM by tands »

pb

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1423 on: January 10, 2017, 07:38:55 PM »
i was walking down the street, the other day, when this guy hammering on a roof, called me a paranoid weirdo, in morse code.

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1424 on: January 10, 2017, 08:20:45 PM »
I think the Russians use a different morse code, so he may just have been making some kind of friendly small talk?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 08:29:17 PM by tands »

JohnRoberts

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1425 on: January 10, 2017, 08:27:09 PM »
i was walking down the street, the other day, when this guy hammering on a roof, called me a paranoid weirdo, in morse code.
;D ;D

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1426 on: January 10, 2017, 09:40:32 PM »
Various people I know like to mock Trump for popping off on Twitter all the time, I was thinking how I much prefer that to this kind of thing,

 ::)

"Determined not to simply recite a history of the last eight years, Obama directed his team to craft an address that would feel ‘‘bigger than politics’’ and speak to all Americans — including those who voted for Trump.

His chief speechwriter, Cody Keenan, started writing it last month while Obama was vacationing in Hawaii, handing him the first draft on the flight home. By late Monday Obama was immersed in a fourth draft, with Keenan expected to stay at the White House all night to help perfect Obama’s final message.

Ahead of his speech, Obama acknowledged that the chaos of Washington makes it easy to lose sight of the role American citizens play in democracy. He said that while he leaves office with his work unfinished, he believes his administration made the U.S. ‘‘a stronger place for the generations that will follow ours.’’

Seeking inspiration, Obama’s speechwriters spent weeks poring over Obama’s other momentous speeches, including his 2004 keynote at the Democratic National Convention and his 2008 speech after losing the New Hampshire primary to Hillary Clinton. They also revisited his 2015 address in Selma, Alabama, that both honored America’s exceptionalism and acknowledged its painful history on civil rights.

Former aides were brought back to consult on the speech, including advisers David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs, and former speechwriter Jon Favreau, said the officials, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the private discussions."

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/01/10/obama-in-final-speech-to-declare-faith-in-power-of-change

dmp

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1427 on: January 11, 2017, 10:14:10 AM »
Quote
But I get it:  it's always obstructionism when the "other team" is doing it, and good political sense when your side benefits.  You can hardly blame the Democrats for subscribing to a winning play.  The Republicans have already shown there is absolutely no political downside to just saying no to everything, so why not?
There will be more double standards - the news out today about ties between Trump and Russia (and that Trump hired prostitutes to piss on him) is being de cried as "FAKE NEWS" "absolute fabrication" by "crooked opponents" - this from the head of the birther movement over the start of Obama's Presidency. The guy that had Trumplican's worked into a fever with fake story after fake story.  In all fairness this info should have been released before the election.

I thought it was a great speech last night by Pres Obama. I will be sorry to see him go.  It really be an about face to have Trump in the white house.

DaveP

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1428 on: January 11, 2017, 11:17:33 AM »
I don't think it really matters what people say about Trump at the moment, he is the original Teflon kid.

I think Obama is a really nice guy, but he is not so competent on the foreign policy issues.  I think that when we intervene in countries with tribal societies, thousands die.  When we don't intervene in those same countries, other thousands die.  It's a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The only difference if you don't, is that other players like Russia step into the vacuum and do things you don't approve of.  I think that the Russians understand these areas of foreign policy better than the West and we have been playing catch-up.

I think that the US needs to unite around the Presidency at the moment and give your new government the benefit of the doubt, there will be another opportunity to vote in 4 years time and time flies.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

hodad

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1429 on: January 11, 2017, 12:39:14 PM »

I think that the US needs to unite around the Presidency at the moment and give your new government the benefit of the doubt, there will be another opportunity to vote in 4 years time and time flies.

DaveP

Respectfully, Dave:  No.  Absolutely not.  If you look at what is going on behind the headline-grabbing blustering belligerence of the president elect (eg, setting up a purge of climate scientists from the govt., the extremely suspect cabinet choices, the wholesale firing [er, forced resignation] of ALL ambassadors, the plans to undo as much of what Obama did as quickly as possible--regardless of whether it makes sense to do this or not)--well, it gets pretty worrisome.  And it's really nothing that I can support.  Period.  It's nothing any sensible (and there are far too many who are not) American should support. 


dmp

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1430 on: January 11, 2017, 02:24:46 PM »
Quote
I think that the US needs to unite around the Presidency at the moment and give your new government the benefit of the doubt,

I'm not surprised that conservatives will say this, but I don't think it is going to happen.  Trump is a very decisive candidate and will probably retain little more than the support of his hardline base.
It is ironic that conservatives would expect this after the last 8 years. The Republican no-holds-barred opposition has set many new lows. Trump himself led the birther nonsense. I don't think Trump has ever come out and admitted he was wrong about it. And Republican's in Congress united in opposition at the start of Obama's term, using every tactic of  obstruction available.
Maybe if you don't live in the US you aren't as aware of the vile, non-stop slanderous attacks on Obama & liberals in general that went on for the last 8 years. If you tuned in to right wing talk radio or glanced at the internet echo chambers you would know what I mean.
So, no I don't expect unification and I think don't think Trump supporters should get all pissy that their opponents aren't adhering to some "golden" standard.

mattiasNYC

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1431 on: January 11, 2017, 02:58:33 PM »
I think Obama is a really nice guy, but he is not so competent on the foreign policy issues.  I think that when we intervene in countries with tribal societies, thousands die.  When we don't intervene in those same countries, other thousands die.  It's a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The only difference if you don't, is that other players like Russia step into the vacuum and do things you don't approve of.

The above seems to ignore the reason for intervention.

I think that the US needs to unite around the Presidency at the moment and give your new government the benefit of the doubt, there will be another opportunity to vote in 4 years time and time flies.

DaveP

An as I asked you before - and you never replied - just how do you decide where a line has been crossed after which "the benefit of the doubt" and "unite" simply is no longer justified? It's not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to hear an answer to that.

DaveP

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1432 on: January 11, 2017, 06:39:13 PM »
Quote
An as I asked you before - and you never replied - just how do you decide where a line has been crossed after which "the benefit of the doubt" and "unite" simply is no longer justified? It's not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to hear an answer to that.
Sorry, must have missed it, you write more stuff than I have time to read or answer.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

This is my position on life and how I would cope with your situation.

The older I get, the more I need the last part to help me with the first part.  The part in the middle I did what I could, when I could in Africa, keeping a hospital and nursing school going for a while.  As I revue my life I realise how infinitesimal the results of my efforts have been, maybe you three will have more success. (Hodad, dmp, you)

Four years goes by in a flash of an eye, I just doubt Trump's ability to change much at all in that time.  The way I see it he will be resisted by all the vested interests that inhabit the "swamp" as well as Democrats and Republicans that hate him.  I can see all his voters becoming disillusioned and embittered.

The parts of Obama's legacy that he is most proud of,  getting Osama bin Laden and getting the US out of the credit crunch cannot be changed by anyone and will stand.  His Obama care is doubtful, but it may or may not be transformed into something better, for that you will have to wait and see.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

mattiasNYC

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1433 on: January 11, 2017, 07:11:24 PM »
You actually didn't answer my question.

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1434 on: January 11, 2017, 07:53:50 PM »
Any benefit of the doubt is going to be taken advantage of for personal and corporate profit, that's what we learned from Obama's residency, I thought. The primary difference between Trump and Hills is not really their levels of toxicity (debatable, of course), but the fact that it was apparent that Trump wasn't trying to hide who he was, and Clinton, well that's all she tried to do. In a lowest common denominator election like this one, not creeping around like a freak is a big plus.

This piss thing would have come out before the election if it were true, but it keeps these people tittering and smirking in harmony.

"“I'm with you in the fight ahead,” Brock wrote Tuesday in an open letter to Sanders (I-Vt.), posted on Medium.

“At times during the Democratic primary, I was criticized for being too aggressive in my support for Secretary Clinton  — and rightly so,” Brock added. “Looking back, I recognize that there were a few moments when my drive to put Hillary in the White House led me to take too stiff a jab. I own up to that, I regret it, and I apologize to you and your supporters for it.”

Perhaps Brock is thinking of the time he said that “it seems black lives don't matter much to Bernie Sanders,” or the time one of his groups, Correct the Record, compared Sanders to polarizing British politician Jeremy Corbyn, or the multiple times that another of Brock's groups, the American Democracy Legal Fund, accused the senator from Vermont of Federal Election Commission violations.

Sanders, naturally, was not a David Brock fan during the campaign. He referred to Brock as “scum of the Earth” in an interview with Time magazine last May. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/10/clinton-warrior-david-brock-offers-an-apology-and-his-allegiance-to-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.161afdb99971#comments

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:59:48 AM by tands »

JohnRoberts

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1435 on: January 11, 2017, 07:55:32 PM »
You actually didn't answer my question.
Maybe that's what Dave wants you to accept.  ;D

JR

PS: I find arguing about the future difficult.
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1436 on: January 11, 2017, 08:19:55 PM »
John McCain and Lindsey Graham go on a picnic, part II.

 ;D

"President-elect Donald Trump on Wednesday took a swing at Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.) when asked about the lawmaker's plan to propose tougher sanctions against Russia.

When asked what he thinks about Graham's call for tougher measures at his Tuesday press conference, the president-elect said that he did not hear about the senator's proposal, while taking a swipe at his former GOP rival.

"I haven't heard Lindsey Graham is going to do that. Lindsey Graham, Lindsey Graham, I've been competing with him for a long time. He's going to crack that 1 percent barrier one day," Trump quipped.

"I didn't realize Lindsey Graham is still at it. I think Lindsey Graham is a nice guy, actually. I've heard that he is a nice guy, and I've been hearing it.""

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/313788-trump-swipes-at-graham-hes-going-to-crack-that-one-percent
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 08:24:29 PM by tands »

tands

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1437 on: January 11, 2017, 08:38:26 PM »
Greenwald in fine form, read the whole article!

 ;)

"Most important of all, the legitimate and effective tactics for opposing Trump are being utterly drowned by these irrational, desperate, ad hoc crusades that have no cogent strategy and make his opponents appear increasingly devoid of reason and gravity. Right now, Trump’s opponents are behaving as media critic Adam Johnson described: as ideological jelly fish, floating around aimlessly and lost, desperately latching on to whatever barge randomly passes by.

There are solutions to Trump. They involve reasoned strategizing and patient focus on issues people actually care about. Whatever those solutions are, venerating the intelligence community, begging for its intervention, and equating their dark and dirty assertions as Truth are most certainly not among them. Doing that cannot possibly achieve any good, and is already doing much harm."

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/11/the-deep-state-goes-to-war-with-president-elect-using-unverified-claims-as-dems-cheer/

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:42:06 PM by tands »

DaveP

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1438 on: January 12, 2017, 02:26:17 AM »
Quote
You actually didn't answer my question.
Yes, I did, but I'm unable to predict the future and therefore unable to guess where a line that might upset you if crossed would fall.

You're a smart guy, I'm sure you realise you cannot change the election result, so that has to be accepted.

If his government does something that particularly offends you and a sufficient number of others, then you can demonstrate and petition.

You need the wisdom to know when you can make a difference and when you can't, otherwise your life gets spoiled by bitterness and paranoia.

Some things just have to be put up with until the country can vote again, perhaps the democrats will come up with a more suitable candidate by then.

Maybe your best course of action in the meantime would be to identify that candidate and get involved with their support structure, maybe that would make a difference.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

mattiasNYC

Re: Donald trump. what is your take on him?
« Reply #1439 on: January 12, 2017, 02:56:29 AM »
Yes, I did, but I'm unable to predict the future and therefore unable to guess where a line that might upset you if crossed would fall.

No, I was asking you for where YOU would draw the line and how you would determine that.

Let's say a future leader in your country, one you didn't vote for, promotes anti-semitism and a mandatory registration of Jews. The person then gets elected. Is it time for you to "unite" with the rest of the people that voted for him? Is it your duty to give him the benefit of the doubt?

I would argue that indeed there is a line that is crossed at some point, and that you probably can figure out roughly where that line is. But I quite frankly find it more than a bit presumptuous for a conservative Brit living in France to tell Americans to unite behind the most divisive president in decades, and that we need to give him the benefit of doubt.

You're a smart guy, I'm sure you realise you cannot change the election result, so that has to be accepted.

That's only partially true.