Donald trump. what is your take on him?

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Yes, that is one of many good ideas that have been around for quite a while, probably because a huge majority think the electoral college should no longer be the system that is used.
Of course, just like the fact that the house will never fulfill it's role in the electoral college system by preventing a foreign power or populist movement from placing a demagogue in the office of the president, in great part because it's members are a result of a completely gerrymandered electorate, it will never allow any legislation that could threaten it's stranglehold on power.
 
The Obvious problem with the popular vote method is that  it does not offer equal say in the matter of electing a president.
If we went by popular vote then California. and New York would dictate every election as some of the largest populations live in NYC, L.A. San Francisco and so on. 
 
pucho812 said:
The Obvious problem with the popular vote method is that  it does not offer equal say in the matter of electing a president.
If we went by popular vote then California. and New York would dictate every election as some of the largest populations live in NYC, L.A. San Francisco and so on.
This is a very old discussions and well inspected by our founders.

I wouldn't mind repealing the 17th amendment that took the election of senators away from the state legislatures and made them simple popular vote elections. This shifted power away from the local state legislatures and shifted it to the federal govt. Too much power centered in DC is not a good thing IMO and they keep taking more control  with health care, etc.

The electoral college was based on other concerns (like slow news flow) but I wouldn't be in such a hurry to unwind that system... lots of so-so science fiction inspecting futuristic simple democratic governments, not all pretty pictures.

JR

PS: The best government is generally local (unless you live in CA and NY  ::) ), but they seem happy enough to tell us how to act..
 
JohnRoberts said:
I guess it depends on what the primary mission of the electoral college is/was. Our founders were long apprehensive about simple democracy that would be dominated by very populous coastal states, and slow information flow to less populated middle states. That information flow dynamic has changed somewhat, but the concerns about simple democracy have not. (We are a representative republic.)
So instead of being dominated by very populous coastal states, it was dominated by ~100k voters in three interior states.

No matter which way you boil this potato, the only mathematically fair way to do this is via a simple plurality of votes.  Each person's vote counts for the same.  It is equally fair (or perhaps equally unfair) to everyone involved.

The founding of the college was indeed based on certain worries, however most of those have been rendered moot.  First, they wanted a deliberative body that could essentially 'veto' unqualified candidates.  We already saw how this played out.  Second, given about half states require (by law) EC member to vote with the state has rendered this particular aspect redundant.

In any case, none of this will (ever) change.  It would require 3/4 states to ratify any amendments, which isn't going to (ever) happen.
 
With every other lie Trump tells – and we all know he makes Lance Armstrong look like a lightweight – our mainstream media calls him out for being chock full of shit. The ONLY thing they celebrate the veracity of is war propaganda. It’s the equivalent of being upset with your friend for his endless manipulation and selfishness in regard to everything from foosball scoring to who bought the last round of drinks – EXCEPT when it comes to the Tinder dates he’s been murdering and storing under his bed. For THOSE, you are not upset and in fact congratulate him on a job well done.

And this is not the first time a U.S. president has led us into bombing a sovereign nation with the willful (and some might say gleeful) assistance of the mainstream media. Here are just three examples of many:

    1) Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq: I’m not sure if you’re familiar with this minor moment in America’s distant past. The year was 2003 and a young man named Saddam Hussein had really gotten our goat. Following the traumatic events of 9/11, Hussein was discovered committing the unforgivable crime of ruling a country in the general vicinity of the country that actually birthed the hijackers who attacked us.

    On top of that, he sat atop a lot of oil that he stubbornly refused to give us free of charge – even though we asked nicely (not nicely). Luckily, his aggressive weapons of mass destruction program gave us an ironclad reason to invade. He was preparing to kill a million innocent people!

    Later –after he had been toppled, arrested, hanged, and we had killed roughly a million innocent people – we found his weapons program consisted of four guys with a sling shot (but the sling shot could be retrofitted to launch stones as large as a papaya).

    In our defense, after the million people were killed, the New York Times DID issue a correction on the whole “weapons of mass destruction” thing. It read: “Correction: Over the past four years we reported that Saddam Hussein had a fully-realized program to produce weapons of mass destruction, and therefore the U.S. needed to invade Iraq, destroy their society, topple their government, and kill a lot of people….Please ignore that reporting.” (It did not actually read as such, but you get the idea.)

    2) The Gulf of Tonkin Incident: This “incident” which got us into a protracted and altogether unpleasant war in Vietnam was a lie from the beginning. Even the name is a lie. “The Gulf of Tonkin Incident” is actually two incidents that are actually only one incident, which is actually only a half an incident.

    The incidents took place on August 2nd and 4th of 1964. One of them didn’t happen and the other kind of happened. On Aug 2nd, the USS Maddox exchanged gun fire with three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats. The US claimed the North Vietnamese fired first, but in fact the USS Maddox fired the first shots.

    Then, fresh off the heels of THAT horrible battle, on Aug 4th, two US ships spent four hours firing on various radar targets that were attacking them. They sunk two torpedo boats – which may sound like a win, but once you take into account that those torpedo boats did not adhere to the traditional definition of “existence,” it’s surprising the US navy didn’t sink far MORE than just two imaginary boats. Yes, that’s right. The US military spent four hours shooting at rain clouds in the Gulf of Tonkin. Considering the awesome power of our weaponry, it’s surprising we weren’t able to win that battle in no more than two hours.

    Following that confrontation Defense Secretary McNamara advised President Johnson to retaliate and the president agreed. So our justification for getting involved in Vietnam was two incidents which were actually one incident which was actually our fault. Over the next several years 58,000 US service members and as many as 3.8 million Vietnamese would die in the fighting….But those rain clouds knew not to mess with us from then on.

    3) Afghanistan – Almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and Osama Bin Laden was ultimately found hiding in Pakistan. But MAN did we fuck up Afghanistan!

So ask yourself: How much mainstream media reporting have you heard of the fact that Trump bombed Syria for completely false reasons? Our media has a seemingly limitless amount of time and energy to get the story wrong but just can’t seem to find enough free hours to get it right. 

more

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/07/lee-camp-no-fear-trump-lying-us-war-just-like-presidents.html
 
South Jersey Antifa twitter  huh

(unlikely to be Safe For Work)

https://twitter.com/SJAntifa/
 
July 25, 2017 – Third Annual International Day of Solidarity with Antifascist Prisoners

EUROPE

Belarus
Roman Bogdan

Roman Bogdan was arrested on April 15, 2015, as part of the long-going state repression of anti-fascists in Brest, stemming from a fight between anti-fascists and fascists on May 8, 2013. In October, Roman was sentenced to 8 years in a penal colony and must pay 3500 Euro in damages. On December 15, 2015 a regional appellate court commuted his sentence by 2 years.

He can read Russian and simple English phrases.

Address:

213010 Shklov
p. Molodezhnyj, IK-17, otryad 12
Mogilevskaya obl.
Belarus

http://abc-belarus.org/?p=6153&lang=en

Vlad Lenko

Vlad Lenko is an antifascist from Ivatsevichi (Brest region). He was arrested on December 27, 2014, and accused of taking part in a fight against local neo-Nazis earlier in December. Vlad was charged with group hooliganism and aggravated bodily harm, and in September 2015 was sentenced to 6 years in a penal colony.

Supporters are trying to raise money to appeal the verdict, which they hope will reduce his sentence by half. They also need to collect 1000 Euro to pay damages ordered by the court.

Fundraising WebMoney:
$ Z418615316084
€ E146518161935

He can read Russian and simple English phrases.

Address:
Lenko Vlad Igorevich
211300 Vitebskaya obl.
Vitebskiy rajon, Vitba, IK-3
BELARUS

http://abc-belarus.org/?p=6240&lang=en

Maxim Yahnieshka

Maxim Yahnieshka was arrested after a fight on April 1st, 2015, where he was hospitalized in a fight with right-wing hooligans. Cops were called by hospital staff, and Maxim refused to name his attackers to police. After obtaining surveillance camera footage, the police identified the right-wing hooligans and had them accuse Maxim of prior conflicts. On September 7, 2016 he was sentenced to 3 years of custodial restraint for malicious bodily harm, theft of a hat, property destruction, and threatening to kill right-wing hooligans. Appeals to a higher court in November left his sentence unchanged, and on December 12, 2016 he was transferred to an open-type penitentiary institution.

ABC Belarus encourages supporters to help Maxim’s family cover the costs associated with his imprisonment. The “open-type” penitentiary institution requires Maxim to pay for food and other services out of his own pocket. His costs are primarily shouldered by his parents, who are themselves in a terrible financial situation.

If you feel like supporting Maxim, please send money through ABC Belarus:
– PayPal [email protected]
– Bitcoin 1CcxWEswKjXZgXQCds5KcHfemzrAASVbuv
– bank account
Account Holder: VpKK e.V.
IBAN: DE 4085 0205 0000 0361 5700
BIC: BFSWDE33DRE
Bank für Sozialwirtschaft
Note: Donation ABC-B
Please make the Note as stated above!

He can read Russian and simple English phrases.

Address:
Maxim Yahnieshka
IUOT No. 7
225140, Pruzhanski r-n, d. Kuplino
BELARUS

https://abc-belarus.org/?p=7161&lang=en#more-716

Bulgaria
Jock Palfreeman

Jock Palfreeman is an Australian anti-fascist political prisoner serving a twenty-year prison sentence in Bulgaria for the rather mysterious death of a neo-Nazi football hooligan who was part of a group attacking two Romani men in Sofia, Bulgaria in 2007. Jock came to the aid of the Romani, and quickly found himself the focus of the attack. Bulgarian authorities did everything they could to ensure that Jock did not receive a fair trial, and after his sentencing have refused–in contravention of their own treaties–to transfer him to Australia to serve the rest of his time closer to his family.

Jock recently wrote that, “Although I do not want people to forget that I continue to stay incarcerated for defending a Roma man being brutally beaten by 15 neo-nazis, this July 25th 2017 I request that as many people as possible can organize solidarity funds for our prisoners’ union here, the Bulgarian Prisoners’ Association (BPRA).” He also asks that people write  to government officials and request that they meet with BPRA representatives.

He can read English and Bulgarian.

Address:
Jock Palfreeman
Sofia Central Prison
21 General Stoletov Boulevard
Sofia 1309, BULGARIA

http://www.brightonabc.org.uk/jock.html

Russia
Aleksandr Kolchenko

Aleksandr  Kolchenko was arrested in Crimea on May 17, 2014, along with several others, and accused by Russian authorities of participation in a “terrorist group” which planned explosions near the Eternal Fire memorial and the Lenin monument in Simferopol, as well as having sabotaged railway tracks and electricity lines. Aleksandr is also alleged to have carried out two arson attacks in April: against the headquarters of the Russian Unity-Party, and the Russian Community of Crimea. He was transferred to Moscow and is being kept in draconian conditions. His lawyers are under a gag order, and have been refused elementary rights to defend him. He faces fifteen-to-twenty years in a labor camp.

Russian authorities claim that Aleksandr is a member of Right Sektor, a Ukrainian ultra-right nationalist organization, but he has no connection to the group—a fact confirmed by relatives and friends. Moreover, Aleksandr is an antifascist and anarchist who consistently opposed nationalistic movements in Crimea and faced constant fascist attacks for his activism. For example, after a film screening about murdered anti-fascist journalist Anastasiya Baburova, he was attacked by thirty Nazis with knives.

Since this case is highly political, Aleksandr’s legal costs are high, around 850 euro per month. The investigation has created a heavy financial strain on local ABC groups, and there is a call for financial support and information distribution. You can make donations via PayPal to [email protected] or using a bank account (write to the same e-mail address for details).

Address:
Kolchenko Aleksandru Aleksandrovichu, 1989 g.r.
456612
Chelyabinskaya obl, Kopeisk,
ul.Kemerovskaya, 20,
IK-6, otryad 4
RUSSIA

Please note: Moscow ABC advises that letters in English are seldom accepted in Russian prisons, so please write only in Russian (try using a translation program), or just send photos and postcards.

http://avtonom.org/en/news/repressions-against-crimean-activists-political-context
http://wiki.avtonom.org/en/index.php/Aleksandr_Kolchenko

Sweden
Joel Almgren

Joel Almgren was sentenced to five years and six months for defending a local community-organized anti-racist demonstration in Stockholm against a brutal Nazi attack on December 15, 2013. The peaceful protest—against fascist assaults on local anti-racists and the dissemination of Nazi propaganda in area schools—was attacked with knives, sticks, and glass bottles by the most militant Nazi group in Sweden. Anti-fascists at the scene defended the demonstration from the attack and many were injured themselves.

Joel has over 4080 USD in fines, and his supporters are asking for help raising the money.

To donate from a non-swedish bank account:
IBAN: SE0680000832799438650120
Bic: SWEDSESS

He can read Swedish and English.

Address:
Joel Almgren
KVA Tidaholm
Skogsholmvägen
522 85 Tidaholm
SWEDEN

http://www.fanggruppen.com/write-to-prisoners-1/
https://www.facebook.com/freejoel

https://nycantifa.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/antifa-prisoners-july-25-2017/

https://twitter.com/NYCAntifa/

 
In the UK the crime is called resisting arrest, I don't have much sympathy for people who don't co-operate with the police.
Without them we would all be at the mercy of gang members.

Now if you want to criticize them, better focus on the trigger happy one who shot the Australian woman who called them!

DaveP
 
DaveP said:
In the UK the crime is called resisting arrest, I don't have much sympathy for people who don't co-operate with the police.
Without them we would all be at the mercy of gang members.

Now if you want to criticize them, better focus on the trigger happy one who shot the Australian woman who called them!

DaveP
This is a pretty interesting case.  Kind of a role reversal on the BLM "white cop shoots minority innocent" .

Lots of stuff to explain and the police chief has already been fired by the mayor, while that didn't seem to satisfy the public's anger.

The woman shot was the one who called the police to report what she thought was a crime happening.

She was shot by a minority officer from inside the police car, after she approached the car to report what she knew.

The officer's and police car cameras were not turned on at the time.

Reportedly there was a loud noise outside the police car just before the shooting.

A tragedy for all involved, but newsworthy because of the unusual circumstances.

We have forum members in the area who may be able to provide more local info, while it may just be an unfortunate accident. It is way too easy to project onto the stereotypes involved.

JR
 
This is all symptomatic of a major problem in the USA, which is getting incredibly worse... cheapness.
It takes money to properly train police, it takes a decent salary to entice the kind of people that can be good officers to pursue the career,  not to mention to care for and educate the young, to maintain infrastructure, the list goes on...
Yet the only interest is in trying to reduce the amount of taxes that have to be paid, diverting the tax dollars that exist into privatization so exploiters can provide reduced services and pocket as much as possible, divert education funds to pay for private school for rich people... the list goes on
The days of extreme government waste and inefficiency are past, while there is always room for improvement, the end result of starving to destruction every worthwhile government institution is a society run by exploiters and thugs (hmm, sound familiar?).
 
nielsk said:
This is all symptomatic of a major problem in the USA, which is getting incredibly worse... cheapness.
It takes money to properly train police, it takes a decent salary to entice the kind of people that can be good officers to pursue the career,  not to mention to care for and educate the young, to maintain infrastructure, the list goes on...
Yet the only interest is in trying to reduce the amount of taxes that have to be paid, diverting the tax dollars that exist into privatization so exploiters can provide reduced services and pocket as much as possible, divert education funds to pay for private school for rich people... the list goes on
The days of extreme government waste and inefficiency are past, while there is always room for improvement, the end result of starving to destruction every worthwhile government institution is a society run by exploiters and thugs (hmm, sound familiar?).
I know this has been discussed to death, but the basic problem with our society is the overriding goal.

For Americans, it's "more." Since we are a capitalist nation, that factor determines that EVERYTHING DONE IN BUSINESS is all about the dollar - making a dollar, saving a dollar. And most crimes revolve around taking a dollar in ever more elaborate schemes.

What if, instead of the concept of "more" we were to change the rules of the game to "better."

BETTER police. BETTER government. BETTER teaching.

I fear as long as the dollar is the prize, this will never happen.

Good points.
 
JohnRoberts said:
Lots of stuff to explain and the police chief has already been fired by the mayor, while that didn't seem to satisfy the public's anger.

Reportedly there was a loud noise outside the police car just before the shooting.

I don't know why that would 'satisfy the public's anger', the police chief didn't shoot anyone. I read a statistic, 675 people have been shot by police since the beginning of the year, that's 3.5 people per day.

The police chief was apparently on vacation backpacking and getting updates, ie she didn't feel a need to return.  So the mayor got rid of her. I doubt there was a 'loud noise', myself. Sounds like another police story to  me.

It took Chief Janeé Harteau nearly five days to respond to the shooting of Justine Damond by officer Mohamed Noor. It took Mayor Betsy Hodges and the City Council a matter of hours Friday to decide Harteau was no longer the right person to lead the police force.

The idea that Harteau could lose her job had been gaining steam in City Hall over the past week, during which time the chief posted photos of herself on Facebook from Telluride, Colo. As her department came under fire, again, because one of Harteau’s officers shot an unarmed woman, Harteau’s social media showed her riding a gondola up a mountain.

“It’s not just an isolated circumstance,” said Linea Palmisano, the council member from the ward where Damond was killed. “It’s cumulative.”

Harteau resigned Friday but was about to be fired, sources said.

Palmisano read me several e-mails from constituents angry about Harteau’s lack of urgency over the shooting and her handling of the department in general. Palmisano was one of several council members Friday to call for more council control over police, and to call for Harteau’s resignation. The chief’s already rocky relationship with Hodges obviously didn’t help.

Harteau certainly doesn’t own all the crises that have tarnished the police force the past few years, but political expediency made her departure inevitable.

For four days, city leaders offered sympathies to the victim’s family and friends, while others attended vigils and helped the Damonds with plans for a memorial service. Reporters who tried to find out where Harteau was were met with silence, or vague answers that she was on previously booked “personal time” and “out of state.”

Vacation?

No one used that word.

more

http://startribune.com/jon-tevlin-police-chief-s-absence-spelled-the-end/436038193/

http://startribune.com/complete-coverage-of-justine-damond-s-shooting/435415123/

 

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DaveP said:
In the UK the crime is called resisting arrest, I don't have much sympathy for people who don't co-operate with the police.

Without them we would all be at the mercy of gang members.

What you're not understanding is that people are beaten, degraded, and shot by police regardless of what they do, based entirely on their whim. Are you really claiming you have no sympathy for someone simply because 'they don't cooperate with police'?

.
 

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Phrazemaster said:
For Americans, it's "more." Since we are a capitalist nation, that factor determines that EVERYTHING DONE IN BUSINESS is all about the dollar - making a dollar, saving a dollar. And most crimes revolve around taking a dollar in ever more elaborate schemes.

What if, instead of the concept of "more" we were to change the rules of the game to "better."

BETTER police. BETTER government. BETTER teaching.

I fear as long as the dollar is the prize, this will never happen.

Good points.

Neoliberalism is not particularly hard to define. It’s not only an ideology or a set of principles; it’s a system of practices, and an era, the one we’re living in now. What it means, over and above everything, is untrammeled ruling-class power, an end to the class-collaborationism of the post-war years and a vicious assault of the rich against the poor. This is achieved through market mechanisms, fiscal austerity and the penetration of capitalist relations into every possible facet of human life. It doesn’t mean that the role of the state vanishes—an essential precondition for neoliberalism is the destruction of working-class power and collective bargaining, and this has to be achieved, often brutally, through laws and their enforcement. There isn't just "some role for market forces" either, but their invasion into every fathomable social situation.

Warehouse workers are electronically monitored and made to compete against each other in efficiency rankings? This is neoliberalism. The young and unemployed are encouraged to build a "personal brand" and sell themselves as a product? This is neoliberalism. If you don’t like any of this, you’re encouraged to shop ethically, reduce your personal carbon footprint and consume vaguely antagonistic culture-commodities. This is neoliberalism.

The result of all this is that our society has become atomized: we see all our relations as essentially competitive, and the people around us as rivals for scarce goods; we are all, socially and existentially, alone. Everything we do is turned into a market transaction, a form of buying and selling. And this is because the free and unfettered market isn’t a neutral system for processing human interactions, but an instrument of class power.

It’s true that, as Chait points out, the term "neoliberal" can describe much of the broad spectrum of American politics. This isn’t a bad thing. It’s important to be able to give a name to the awful totality that surrounds us. Once it can be fixed as an object, something of which we have a shared perception, we can start to think outside of it. It was not always like this; once, capitalism took other forms. Without a concept that points out the grim sameness that seeps through a corroding politics, you end up like Jonathan Chait: obsessing over the differences between two parties, as one gives the rich their foot-bath and the other gently nuzzles at their scalps


http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/one-word-guaranteed-make-corporate-pundit-class-squirm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSMTynd_m0
 
For Americans, it's "more." Since we are a capitalist nation, that factor determines that EVERYTHING DONE IN BUSINESS is all about the dollar - making a dollar, saving a dollar. And most crimes revolve around taking a dollar in ever more elaborate schemes.

What if, instead of the concept of "more" we were to change the rules of the game to "better."

BETTER police. BETTER government. BETTER teaching.
+1
DaveP
 
Tands,
I agree with the drift of that article, in that an excess of Capitalism can be de-humanising.  In the UK we recently had an example of that with a company called Sports Direct.  We are also well aware of zero hours contracts etc.

But there remains the problem of how to treat people who don't have an intrinsic work ethic in their nature.  TV programs often portray characters "pulling a sickie" when they want a day off.  When I managed staff, I  found from experience that the day most taken off for sickness was a Monday.  Either people contract bugs at the weekend or they over indulge, I guess the latter.

There are also Malthusian principles at work here, as the population gets to critical levels and the degree of competitive behaviour increases.  In the UK in the 50's and 60's, only about 1 or 2% went to university, the rest of us went to work.  First the Japanese, then the Koreans and now the Chinese started to take the old kind of manufacturing jobs.  Now the rate of young people going to University is up to around 30% because higher skilled (and creative) jobs have not yet been taken by the Chinese.  The ones who did not make it to university may go into construction and infra structure, but those that can't or won't, fall into the hands of bad capitalists as you say.

Family work ethics and basic honesty are probably the best gifts we can pass on to our children to keep them out of the hands of unscrupulous men.

DaveP
 

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