News:

Happy New Year!


living sounds

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 02:27:22 PM »
Living sounds, did you happen to try On Semi 5534?

No, I didn't even know they existed. Do they? Are they currently made?


MicDaddy

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 02:37:47 PM »
Yes and yes, and the SA5534ADG slightly better input offset output offset input bias, and nV roughly the same as the TI.

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 07:42:57 AM »
I don't hear any difference.
I guess if there are, they are buried by the transformer's response and by the mp3 encoding (and by my aging ears).

It's funny. For years I've read and heard many going on at great length about specific versions of opamps and how desirable they are.

I hear basically nothing in my vintage vs new 2520's. Or, nothing worth shaking a stick at...

Anyway, I concur.

abbey road d enfer

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2016, 08:53:15 AM »
It's funny. For years I've read and heard many going on at great length about specific versions of opamps and how desirable they are.

I hear basically nothing in my vintage vs new 2520's. Or, nothing worth shaking a stick at...

Anyway, I concur.
That's because, contrary to monolithic IC's, where process have evolved considerably over the years, discrete semiconductors have a less distinct evolution. A BC109 of current date is not much different than a BC109 of yesteryear; the latter needed to be selected, today they are run-of-the-mill.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

Seeker

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2016, 01:07:44 AM »
Thanks for doing this comparison, I always enjoy these...  Here's what I hear:

GAR - My favorite on this piece of music... slightly round, warm, adds a bit of vintage tone...
APP - Similar to GAR  but seems to have a bit of a boost somewhere around 3 K ish.... the vocals seems to cut more, but for this piece id still choose the GAR
AC Sound - Sounds fine, a little bigger than the 5534s & more 3D but has less 'character' than the GAR or APP
 5534s - Both sound thinner than the rest to me, with the TI being the thinnest...

For this piece of music, I would absolutely choose the GAR...  but thats because I think it wants to sound somewhat 'vintage'...

Thanks again for the comparison, & good job on a very nice sounding track!


After listening again, I am realizing that I think I'm hearing a touch of compression like character on the GAR that I am digging...  it seems to be smooshing things together just a touch, which Im liking on this piece of music.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 01:13:01 AM by Seeker »
"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles

living sounds

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2016, 08:59:36 AM »
Interesting, keep it coming!


I did more tests, this time with the CAPI 2-ACA on the summing bus. What I ended up with was again the TI NE5534 in the summing position, but with the GAR1731 in the booster slot.

In the summing position the GAR1731 takes away low end as well as high end but adds a nice beef to the lower mids and a finished quality to the higher mids, but also some grain to the high end. Ultimately I again prefered the 5534 for summing, it's really full, open and neutral.

Surprisingly, in the booster the 1731 had better low and high end and a more cohesive overall sound than the 5534, which sounded kind of worn out. Maybe a problem of marginal stability?

JohnRoberts

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2016, 09:38:36 AM »
Interesting, keep it coming!


I did more tests, this time with the CAPI 2-ACA on the summing bus. What I ended up with was again the TI NE5534 in the summing position, but with the GAR1731 in the booster slot.

In the summing position the GAR1731 takes away low end as well as high end but adds a nice beef to the lower mids and a finished quality to the higher mids, but also some grain to the high end. Ultimately I again prefered the 5534 for summing, it's really full, open and neutral.

Surprisingly, in the booster the 1731 had better low and high end and a more cohesive overall sound than the 5534, which sounded kind of worn out. Maybe a problem of marginal stability?
I've probably suggested this before, but with a console you can probably set up two channels in parallel and null them from each other to empirically isolate what the difference is. This won't tell you which one is different, but you can probably determine that from some additional comparisons.   

Or make bench measurements.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

living sounds

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2016, 10:32:49 AM »
I've probably suggested this before, but with a console you can probably set up two channels in parallel and null them from each other to empirically isolate what the difference is. This won't tell you which one is different, but you can probably determine that from some additional comparisons.   

Or make bench measurements.

JR


Yes, I always record a file, nulling them is always enlightening. I do measurements, too, but they're of limited help because the transformers in the signal path contribute quite a lot of distortion.

3nity

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2016, 04:00:53 PM »
Few years ago i really liked the john burdick 2520...but i recently compared it vs a gar2520.
GAr2520 are great!
Life is a path, death the destination.

cyrano

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2016, 07:54:40 PM »
http://www.ka-electronics.com/images/pdf/valley_people_trans_amp_applications.pdf

Here's a link to the app note over on Wayne's forum. Lots of pearls like this over there. (Look at AN-2 for the VE summer)

Now, wait, guys. This little pearl of valuable information is hidden in an opamp listening test?

Life is cruel, sometimes.  :-\

But thanks a million for these notes.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?


gar381

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2016, 04:37:13 PM »
Interesting, keep it coming!


I did more tests, this time with the CAPI 2-ACA on the summing bus. What I ended up with was again the TI NE5534 in the summing position, but with the GAR1731 in the booster slot.

In the summing position the GAR1731 takes away low end as well as high end but adds a nice beef to the lower mids and a finished quality to the higher mids, but also some grain to the high end. Ultimately I again prefered the 5534 for summing, it's really full, open and neutral.

Surprisingly, in the booster the 1731 had better low and high end and a more cohesive overall sound than the 5534, which sounded kind of worn out. Maybe a problem of marginal stability?

Try my gar918BC in the summing position.  My favorite.   :)
Also Hairball's 990 is great there too!
Both DOAs are open and neutral and not quite as thin as the 5534.

GARY
RETIRED.....  from 51yrs in Show Biz

gar2520, gar1731 and gar918 DOAs at  http://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=71_72
NEW Sphere section added http://gar381interests.com/gar381interests.html

living sounds

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2016, 07:29:03 PM »
Try my gar918BC in the summing position.  My favorite.   :)
Also Hairball's 990 is great there too!
Both DOAs are open and neutral and not quite as thin as the 5534.

GARY

Thanks Gary, just ordered a few. I will report back after I built and tried them.  :D

living sounds

Re: DOA comparison
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2017, 07:22:19 PM »
Okay, finally got them (from the customs office  ::) ), built them, tried them - love them! The gar918BC  is now officially my favourite op amp for the summing position (still have to try it for anything else).

The difference to the 5534 (BB2521 DOA) is very obvious and I expected a lot less. A veil is lifted from the high- and midrange, a fast low end punch is added (or not taken away).  Clarity is all there, unlike all the other DOAs I've tried there's no midrange clutter, hyped top end, added "texture"(=grain), transient restriction etc. noticeable. Very nice!

Thank you for this great projec, Gary!

Any other recommended uses? I will try preamp and fader buffer next.

BTW, I used BD139/BD140 instead of the MJE172/182 in my built.