Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2016, 11:57:59 AM »
Hello
Tks both of you for the first feed back.
As suggested by Zander it's preferable to listen with studio monitor, there is a chance the sparkle noise is under cellphone amp/speaker noisefloor.

If you want to hear what really happen, I suggest a trim gain about +40dB or more.
If you want real use case consequence of the sparkle noise keep the file at unity.

Best
Zam


Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2016, 10:50:04 AM »
Hi all

Some info update, midibox creator aka Thorsten just inform me that he accept this project release using his open source system.
It was on of the last major doubt I have, now solved.

Best
Zam

Zander

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2016, 11:13:55 AM »
Great news!


Looking forward to hearing more about this!


Zander

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2016, 02:19:11 PM »
Hi all

So here is more, I have a choice/decision to take soon then.

I know now there is low chances I'll be able to fund the last test in the next 6 month (basically 8 fader pack)

So I'm little stuck here,
Do I have to decide to put this in standby until then, to release the thing 100% tested (I mean at least 8 fader together).
Or do I start now releasing not 100% tested system, which will partially pay hardware to fit my console and test a full pack...

Since beginning of this project, I try to not involve other's money with non fully tested system, even if I get few very kind offer.

I know Zander is very enthusiastic with this, and he want to look forward for potential PT user support (soft side). Which could be great!
Also Tskguy, have you any update from US TKD distributor?

What do you guys usually find acceptable "error" when it come to a first run with DIY project?
The main concern here is potential latency via MCU protocol, when running more fader (more mididata), and of course what happen with 4MCU unit (32 fader)

Best
Zam

Zander

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2016, 03:37:29 AM »
What would sell if you release now? I can take the risk of buying a faderpack if this would fund you for further testing.


Zander

gato

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2016, 02:16:37 PM »
I could buy pcb's but not faders right now. I'm in the middle in switching to off-grid solar power so I need to chill on expenses for the rest of the year.

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2016, 12:33:33 PM »
mmm i still thinking, maybe I can check with a bunch of cheap alps, it will approve the system, just poor audio spec with those carbon track. I think it will cost less at the end buying ALPS now and TKD with group buy later than ordering TKD now at full price.

To respond about price, I have no idea, i'm not used to this "market"
What do you guys have in mind about price range for a project like this?
It's and "inspired from" project, but not a cloning at all, there is some true "RnD" and original design/layout
It involve 17pcb.
When I see a 1176 pcb at 20€, that cost 2€ to manufacture, it's a x10...

Best
Zam

Rocinante

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2016, 01:30:26 PM »
Little risk in an 1176 though. I too have been watching this thread in anticipation.
Maybe try the alps. You spend less that way and it will get you further along until you can get as far as you can.  Than when its time you know what you have will probably work.
If there's a harder way to do this, I haven't found it yet.

gato

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2016, 10:52:14 PM »
I'd say charge for your time in such a way that you feel good about it. In this business especially we all know about being too generous and working for too little money because we like a  project or a person and then end up feeling resentful as the project drags on. When you say its 17 pcbs is that for 8 channel? Are the midi box pcbs in addition to that? If so that would be a ton! In general pcb's both in gdiy and in synth land cost $20 or more (example of different makers of synth module pcbs all at one hub: http://synthcube.com/cart/index.php?route=product/category&path=74_77).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 10:59:54 PM by gato »

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2016, 10:30:52 AM »
I'd say charge for your time in such a way that you feel good about it. In this business especially we all know about being too generous and working for too little money because we like a  project or a person and then end up feeling resentful as the project drags on. When you say its 17 pcbs is that for 8 channel? Are the midi box pcbs in addition to that? If so that would be a ton! In general pcb's both in gdiy and in synth land cost $20 or more (example of different makers of synth module pcbs all at one hub: http://synthcube.com/cart/index.php?route=product/category&path=74_77).
yes it's 17 pcb for 8 ch, I keep the system modular, because it's the only way to fit in my modular console...
One in/out board (64Digital I/O and 8 analogue I/O)
8 motor/touch pcb and 8 button/led pcb
MB_NG pcb not included, you need 1 core pcb and optional line rx/tx pcb if you put the brain in a rack (recommended)
So the basic system is 20 pcb total for 8 fader
For what I look around regarding pcb dimension and complexities the I/O pcb is in the 50-75 range, motor in the 15-25 and remote in the 7-15. It's a 200-400 total range estimation

I will never be able to charge time!!! I think I put more than 1000h in the last two years on this  ::)
There is a reason "big name" charge 6 to 8k for 8 fader pack...it still a small market for branded system you can't really absorb R&D by selling million unit.
The only reasonable target I can hope for, is to eventually compensate hardware invest, and donate something to support the MIOS creator/community.But then releasing the system introduce a new cost (mainly time) for the support and help.

Little risk in an 1176 though. I too have been watching this thread in anticipation.
Maybe try the alps. You spend less that way and it will get you further along until you can get as far as you can.  Than when its time you know what you have will probably work.
Yep, recent thinking tell me it's the route to go.
So it's an half standby  :P

Best
Zam

ps: here is what a 8 fader "89MotioN" pcb set look like



Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2016, 10:45:49 AM »
Discussion for HUI and PT compatibilities started by Zander here:
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=61673.0

(first post updated about this too)

Best
Zam

gato

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2016, 10:56:30 AM »
In any case, count me in.

tskguy

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2016, 03:12:35 PM »
Zam count me in for an 8 pack as well!!

Glad to see the movement. I was away doing some traveling . I did get some numbers from the US distributer for TKD. For some reason he said the 8v motor was the better option and that the 10v motor was longer lead time and more expensive.
 

Prices as follows:-

                                                   50.             100.          500.          1000
                                                   -----          ------       -----          ------

MF914 A10K M8V.                   $77.             $68.93.    $65.85.     $58.73

LMH5-1101-A10K M8V.         $62.50.        $53.32.    $48.01.     $45.50


Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2016, 03:48:33 PM »
Hi Eric
Look like price are more or less the same, considering VAT and import. I will check
Best
Zam

tskguy

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2016, 01:44:12 PM »
So one thing to consider if we want to buy them in the states we have no VAT or Import Tax so if we did a group buy for the boys state side it still may be worthwhile,, That being said I have a line on a large number of PG motorized faders that are correct just trying to work out a good price...

Eric

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2016, 03:29:41 PM »
Not sure to understand your point ?
Don't you pay VAT an import in the US ? I think your distributor price include what it cost to him to import them, and he also ad VAT on invoice... am I wrong ?

Unfortunately I can't go back with other motor fader at my side, the whole design (I mean mechanical) is around TKD, P&G won't fit now due to motor position.

Best
Zam



tskguy

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2016, 06:21:56 PM »
Yes that is correct we do not pay Vat in the USA , import tax is something I am not sure about... And bummer about the PG fader!! Not a huge deal though...

Eric

gato

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2016, 06:43:53 PM »
Duty on goods imported into the US is variable and can be as high as 37%, but is generally closer to 5%.
I'm not sure how the faders would be classified. I know some electronic products get exemptions.

tskguy

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2016, 07:51:59 PM »
True but we will not be the one importing the goods.. The USA distributer will be.. He may pass the cost on but I would say most do not....
Eric

gato

Re: DIY fader automation interest ?
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2016, 09:50:52 AM »
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying it might be cheaper to buy from the Europe group buy because we'd avoid VAT.