ruffrecords

Brexit
« on: April 16, 2016, 03:03:30 AM »
In June, Great Britain goes to the polls to decide whether it wants to stay in the European Union or leave it. I am old enough to remember the poll 43 years ago when we decided to join. I am not sure that was a smart move and I am not sure leaving would be smart right now.  What does the rest of Europe, and indeed the World, think?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


Matt Nolan

Re: Brexit
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2016, 04:46:25 AM »
I think the public need to be better informed with facts rather than the scare tactics which are currently coming from both sides of the argument.

From my own, inadequately informed, point of view, I think we should stay in the EU. Sure, the way the EU works probably needs changing quite a bit, but I think we would be better inside than out, and the EU would be better with us in than out.

All the progress we have made as humans has come from cooperation and communication. I think separation and isolation are backwards steps. I'm not saying we should be totally homogenous. You can be part of a collective and still be an individual.

The arguments that say we could leave and still have most or all of the benfits of being in are flawed I think. They all reference Norway or Switerland and the likes. Very wealthy countries with small populations. We are not those things. Those arguments also shoot themselves in the foot by pointing out that we benefit by being in the EU.

I believe Mark Twain had a good thing to say about this:

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

In my opinion, the folks arguing for us to leave need to get out more.

beatnik

Re: Brexit
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2016, 06:54:52 AM »
i am an immigrant in this country but i had the same opinion when italy were speaking about the same matter ( although they were just barking )

as always there are pros and cons. for example i think it's good to have open trade with your neighbors, even open borders, but it's not good to have a central government putting their mouth too much in the political and sociological matters of the members countries. neither is good to have a common currency, and we have seen how this contributed to the crisis in southern europe countries, but this is not the case with britain as they had the horsepower to afford keeping their currency

i think the uk government is very smart and they know already in the end people will vote to stay in, but what they wanted to do is re-negotiating some of the relationships between uk and eu and i guess they have been successful to some extent, in any case a referendum is a sign of good democracy (although people can be biased easily)

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 08:11:08 AM »
My biggest gripe with politicians and bureaucrats is that they put their own interests first. We have seen this with the scandal over MP's expenses but at least you get to vote them out every few years. What I really object to are the unelected Brussels bureaucrats who decide what we can and cannot do. The so called 'reforms' negotiated by the UK government are little more than moving deck chairs on the Titanic.  If there is to be reform in the EU it needs to start with the removal of unelected decision makers. Trouble is, they are so entrenched that will never happen.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

s2udio

Re: Brexit
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 08:14:34 AM »
I am definately a brexit voter here, The idea of being part of a federal europe is not a pleasant option,...thats what the political
Forces want, its part of a global stratergy, and nothing to do with being beneficial or not to the UK.
Its happening all over the world,people need to wake up to the pathetic propergander being bounded about by mainstreem media
And the political elite to put fear in to peoples minds, of the outcome of an exit from the EU.
And then our so called democratic government are using  £9.3 M of taxpayers cash to tell me the lies.
Like it or not..., who in the UK wants to be told how to run your life buy rich corupt EU lawmakers who know nothing of our needs.
I know I don't ,and I am not pandering to the scaremongering propegander of NATO and there NWO
Which is the bigger picture in the current world crisis.

Trouble is, they are so entrenched that will never happen.
Cheers
Ian
Unfortunatly that must happen, the bigger picture is very frightening for the future younger generation
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 08:45:07 AM by s2udio »
On the end of a Rural Twisted Pair.

pucho812

Re: Brexit
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 11:15:53 AM »
being across the pond, this is interesting to watch.

I am curious to see the outcome.  What I find is most interesting about the whole Eu arrangement is how some countries have to pick up the slack for others.  I guess it is not that much different here in these united states, were some states have to pick of the slack for other states. Hmmmmm. One government to rule them all,  in the age if fast communication, fast commerce, fast transportation, fast everything is it really necessary?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: Brexit
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 11:36:20 AM »
I don't get a vote, but that doesn't prevent me from having an opinion.

First I applaud the concept of unifying formerly contentious neighboring countries into a common economy. As the old saying goes, countries don't go to war with business partners.

The common currency eliminated as lot of friction in cross border transactions, a win. The common currency without consistent taxation and spending policy causes distortions. Bank capitalization (balance sheet quality) is pretty uneven between richer and poorer countries within the union.

Long term I don't see the EU breaking up, but it needs to eventually harmonize the rest of the economic differences.

I won't live to see it, but good progress so far. 

It is a little unnerving to see the high proportion of young adult male immigrants, but the EU needs more young workers to supplant their aging demographic, so good on paper, but turning them into productive european citizens may be easier said than done. This needs to be accomplished for best outcome.

Good luck

JR

PS: Brexit looks like a negotiating strategy, but I am viewing it from a distance with only passing interest.
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

Re: Brexit
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2016, 12:02:35 PM »
Hi all

As French  ;D
I think brexit will be technically and politically "good" for Europe, UK never played the game IMHO
In the mean time I think UK as lot more to loose than EU in brexit and I don't wish this for this country.
Any way your actual prime minister just openly blackmail all europe recently, playing a dangerous game, unfortunately first victims will be UK population...
I wish I could extrapolate more, it's a very interesting subject, but my English is not so good for deep political talking :(

I think that within few years there will be a contraction again to the historical 6 to 12 nations.
The recent east expansion (tks to UK ....) coupled with ultra liberal politic (tks to UK...) is a disaster.

Best
Zam

mattiasNYC

Re: Brexit
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2016, 12:45:39 PM »
My opinion, having grown up in Sweden in the 70s, then moved to the US as an adult, is that

Sweden should never have joined the collaboration, and the reason for it is the basic flaw of the cooperation in the first place. If it's a big market for not just goods and services but also policies (politics) we're going to see an 'evening out' of a lot of things, and the difficulty is continuing to progress while lifting up those that are behind. In other words, I think Sweden as a whole lost quite a bit of what made it revered all around the world, its progressivism, simply because it doesn't work when integrating with other nations some of which don't care much for it. And of course that's a problem globally. The best case scenario is that it's five steps backwards, three steps forward, but then everyone marches forwards together and the net effect for the entire community is better. I just don't think that's the case since it's hard to spread ideals and policies that work really well and are inherently good when the system works the way it does, and you're tied to it.

As for BREXIT, that's a different thing. Is it really better to exit? I'm not so sure. I'd be 100% in favor of Sweden leaving the EU, but not necessarily the UK. It just seems like a different situation and I'm not sure the UK benefits the same way Sweden would.

I'm mentioning Sweden because someone mentioned Norway and Switzerland, and I think the three pose two different reasons for being separate; on the part of Sweden it's the policies and progressivism (of the past), and in the case of the other two it's their wealth. But I don't think either of those really apply to the same degree to the UK.

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 12:57:46 PM »
It is good to get a view from France. England and France have had a stormy relationship for a thousand years and no matter what happens throughout history we both blame the other for it from William the Conqueror (who was not French) right up to de Gaulle, who stopped us getting into the EU when we first applied, and the common agricultural policy designed to keep French farmers in luxury. England and France have been like a couple of neighbouring kids, scrapping over everything but unable to live without the other.  We even invented a term to describe it - entente cordiale. In or out of the EU, I am certain this relationship will remain unchanged. Vivre la difference.

Despite that, the UK press has reported that France want Britain to stay in the EU.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


rob_gould

Re: Brexit
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2016, 03:00:04 PM »
I am definately a brexit voter here, The idea of being part of a federal europe is not a pleasant option,...thats what the political
Forces want, its part of a global stratergy, and nothing to do with being beneficial or not to the UK.
Its happening all over the world,people need to wake up to the pathetic propergander being bounded about by mainstreem media
And the political elite to put fear in to peoples minds, of the outcome of an exit from the EU.
And then our so called democratic government are using  £9.3 M of taxpayers cash to tell me the lies.
Like it or not..., who in the UK wants to be told how to run your life buy rich corupt EU lawmakers who know nothing of our needs.
I know I don't ,and I am not pandering to the scaremongering propegander of NATO and there NWO
Which is the bigger picture in the current world crisis.

I'm genuinely not sure if this post is a wind up

s2udio

Re: Brexit
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2016, 03:16:23 PM »
Since the UK joined the so called "Common Market" in 1975.
Brussels has continuously centralized control and now that , we find ourselves in the EU,
We can see that our law's are being made , by unelected bureaucrats who cannot be removed by "the people".
Indeed, ........if one were to take time to do the research, one woud discover, that at the outset, those who created the EU,
Have said that........They want a "Federal Europe" with one  government and a single currency.
Cameron is just creating a smokescreen , his renegotiation is mearly window dressing to pander to the skeptic voices in his own Party and The voting public of the UK.


I'm genuinely not sure if this post is a wind up

With all respect Sir, "I would never intentionally wind anyone up"


On the end of a Rural Twisted Pair.

zebra50

Re: Brexit
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2016, 04:03:28 PM »
From a very selfish personal perspective, I am dreading this.

A UK exit from the EU will probably kill my small business.

About 70% or more of our turnover comes from EU customers, who appreciate the ease of dealing with another business in the EU. No paperwork, no customs, no trouble - either real or perceived.

If half of my EU customers decide it is not worth the hassle and send their repairs to others, then we're under. Or I'm moving to France or the Republic of Ireland, visas permitting.

I agree that we are being fed bullsh*t from both sides.

(And I'm still hoping for an independent Republic of Yorkshire.  :) )

Cheers
Stewart
Ribbon microphone services
http://www.xaudia.com
Microphone blog

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2016, 02:28:22 AM »

(And I'm still hoping for an independent Republic of Yorkshire.  :) )

Cheers
Stewart

And I bet that would mean the price of Yorkshire tea would go up!

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

L´Andratté

Re: Brexit
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2016, 04:50:28 AM »
I (as a german and notorious anglophile) want to Britin to stay, because the (much abused) term ´the European idea´ is in general a step toward civilization.
And a better way to somehow withstand the aggressive powers that are doubtlessly at work in the world together.

The EU as an actual organization is a terrible thing. The absence of democratic legitimation in the legislative, the powers of lobbyism, populism and mechanisms of centralization are moving us in a direction, I deem just as bad as feudalism or oligarchy.
It needs to be overcome, slowly, peacefully, people need to be more educated about politics, etc. Will it happen? I´m not so sure. But more likely if we´re in it all together. All those problems we have also with our national governments anyway.

All I want to say it has always been divide and conquer, since thousands of years, let´s not be divided...

Q: What do you think about western civilization?
Mahatma Ghandi: I think it would be a good idea.
 ;)

Strictly amateur since 1973...

sahib

Re: Brexit
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2016, 11:20:24 AM »
......The EU as an actual organization is a terrible thing. The absence of democratic legitimation in the legislative, the powers of lobbyism, populism and mechanisms of centralization are moving us in a direction, I deem just as bad as feudalism or oligarchy.

It needs to be overcome, slowly, peacefully, people need to be more educated about politics, etc. Will it happen? I´m not so sure.....

These are the two main reasons of the OUT camp.


ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2016, 11:41:37 AM »
Apparently president Obama is visiting the UK to tell how important it is we stay in the EU. Odd in so many ways.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

mattamatta

Re: Brexit
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2016, 01:32:26 PM »
I don't know much about the EU, but I just came to post this (I'm easily amused...):

propergander


Re: Brexit
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2016, 04:35:46 PM »
I don't know much about the EU, but I just came to post this (I'm easily amused...):

propergander



Some people believe EU membership is the root of all mallardies...
Prepare yourself. You are about to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament.

Phrazemaster

Re: Brexit
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2016, 03:44:36 PM »
I don't know much about the EU, but I just came to post this (I'm easily amused...):

propergander



Some people believe EU membership is the root of all mallardies...
They're all a bunch of quacks anyway...

(sorry!)
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