ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #640 on: February 16, 2017, 02:18:03 PM »
The problem is, that there is not the time to discuss these laws before the Brexit process starts.  Also, 45 years worth of legislation cannot be discussed over a short time frame.

The main gain will be that the EU court will no longer be the final arbeiter in matters of justice, that will devolve to the UK supreme court.  Much of the legislation, as Ian says, covers regulation on common standards which allows goods and services to be sold to the EU, it's very unlikely that these will be changed as it would stop exports to the EU.

DaveP

There might be an opportunity to rectify some of the silliness. For example there is no EU regulation to force the UK to post road distances in km - they have always been in miles. Yet we have been forced to abandon lb and ozs for weight measurements and people have actually been prosecuted for failing to comply.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


Re: Brexit
« Reply #641 on: February 16, 2017, 11:15:57 PM »
There might be an opportunity to rectify some of the silliness.
Could this possibly mean relaxing the cadmium ban in GB?

And the townsfolk rejoice, there are celebrations in the streets, fireworks and festivities with naked ladies, CdS photocells for everyone. :D

Gene
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 03:59:05 AM by Gene Pink »

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #642 on: February 17, 2017, 05:42:16 AM »
Could this possibly mean relaxing the cadmium ban in GB?

And the townsfolk rejoice, there are celebrations in the streets, fireworks and festivities with naked ladies, CdS photocells for everyone. :D

Gene

Sounds like heaven, but the UK has always been a pretty good place to live.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #643 on: February 17, 2017, 06:38:38 AM »
There might be an opportunity to rectify some of the silliness. For example there is no EU regulation to force the UK to post road distances in km - they have always been in miles.
What is the silliness here? Do you mean it is in km and should be in miles, or the contrary? I don't know, it's nearly 20 years I haven't driven in the UK.  I have driven in Eire a few years ago, though, and I drive regularly in the US. I don't think it really matters if the road signs are in miles, km or li. I'm more concerned with driving on the tournament-correct side of the road.  :)

Quote
Yet we have been forced to abandon lb and ozs for weight measurements
Just the same you had to abandon the old £/guinea/shilling/denarius; was it under pressure from outside or just because it made sense?
Well, in fact you didn't have to abandon the imperial system; it is allowed as an addition to the mandatory metric indication. Just like most of the US products are labelled in both customary and metric because they want to sell to their Mexican and Canadian neighbours.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.


abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #645 on: February 17, 2017, 11:34:39 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
I am tempted to accept the words of Tony Blair with the same mistrust as when he tried to sell us the war in Iraq.
 It was very awkward of him to say that British voters were fooled by their leaders; Boris Johnson immediately seized the opportunity to point it out.
I believe we Europeans are not in a position to assess the UK situation, because of the resentment we feel of being rejected, like a husband whose wife has runaway, not for a younger or richer man, but just out of disenchantment.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

micaddict

Re: Brexit
« Reply #646 on: February 17, 2017, 11:41:38 AM »
I'm not a fan of the guy, either.

And that's an understatement.

Which doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong all of the time.

Anyway, it was the news of today.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #647 on: February 17, 2017, 11:47:37 AM »


Anyway, it was the news of today.
Depressing, innit?
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

DaveP

Re: Brexit
« Reply #648 on: February 17, 2017, 12:16:29 PM »
I think he has left it too late, if he said that last year he might have made a difference.  I think many people including myself are resigned to it now.
Quote
I believe we Europeans are not in a position to assess the UK situation, because of the resentment we feel of being rejected, like a husband whose wife has runaway, not for a younger or richer man, but just out of disenchantment.
Abbey, you should not feel like that, because it is not the reason.
IMHO, there are only two reasons why Brexit occurred,  loss of control of our borders and the European court.  If we had just been in a trading and regulating union it would never have happened.  This has nothing to do with rejection of the European  people themselves.  The same pressures are present in France but are less noticeable because France is a much bigger country, the UK is very crowded and pressured compared to France.  Everything from the health service to housing and even electricity is teetering on the edge.

I think that the EU has moved too quickly and too far for people to assimilate the changes that have taken place.  Politicians have made these changes without consultation and approval and now the people are rebelling in waves of "Populism".   In France the people vent their frustration in "Manifestations" and burning stuff in the streets, in the UK they do it by dumping politicians and their ideologies in elections and referendums.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #649 on: February 17, 2017, 01:06:30 PM »
What is the silliness here? Do you mean it is in km and should be in miles, or the contrary? I don't know, it's nearly 20 years I haven't driven in the UK.  I have driven in Eire a few years ago, though, and I drive regularly in the US. I don't think it really matters if the road signs are in miles, km or li. I'm more concerned with driving on the tournament-correct side of the road.  :)
Roads signs have always been in miles and still are. The silliness is the EU insisted we abandon imperial weights but have never tried to insist we abandon imperial distance measures. The silliness is the population still thinks of buying food in pounds and ounces, and we still ask for half a pound of meat and the  butcher now  mentally converts to grams. The silliness is we have a lot of European tourists and lorry drivers so it would make sense to mark road distances in km for their benefit.
Quote
Just the same you had to abandon the old £/guinea/shilling/denarius; was it under pressure from outside or just because it made sense?
We did not have to abandon it, we chose to change it. We were not forced.
Quote
Well, in fact you didn't have to abandon the imperial system; it is allowed as an addition to the mandatory metric indication. Just like most of the US products are labelled in both customary and metric because they want to sell to their Mexican and Canadian neighbours.
This is not true. It is illegal to sell food in imperial weights in the UK. As I said originally, people have actually been prosecuted for this.

Cheers

Ian
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 01:16:58 PM by ruffrecords »
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


Re: Brexit
« Reply #650 on: February 17, 2017, 01:13:07 PM »

IMHO, there are only two reasons why Brexit occurred,  loss of control of our borders and the European court.  If we had just been in a trading and regulating union it would never have happened.  This has nothing to do with rejection of the European  people themselves.  The same pressures are present in France but are less noticeable because France is a much bigger country, the UK is very crowded and pressured compared to France.  Everything from the health service to housing and even electricity is teetering on the edge.

DaveP

Other reasons for Brexit was the bloat of  Brussels and the rebelling against so-called political class such as Cameron and Jonson telling the populous what to do - "You  just go back to your little house and leave the running of the country to us - we know better because daddy arranged an internship for me and I studied PPE at Oxford for a year.  The fact that I have an IQ below my shoe-size  and no social provenance is irrelevant".

Blair is a money-obsessed blatant liar and it is probably in his personal interest for the UK to stay in Europe. The man is a crook and a charlatan.

Mark Zuckerberg - the boss of Facebook - has stated that he thinks there is a kickback against globalisation.  The ability to manufacture product in the cheapest place on the planet is reducing national capabilities and increasing dependencies on other nation states.   How long will it be before countries become polarised to a single product like the Ukraine used to be the breadbasket of the USSR?   Maybe Trump does have a point in his 'US workers produce in the US'  first approach.

I also think you are over-egging some of your points there though Dave. Yes the Health service is having problems compounded by the freedom of people from Europe taking advantage of it.  In my recent experience, it is not as widespread as the media would have you believe - they love to blow things up and create jeopardy as it shifts newsprint,  and as far as I know the electricity system in not in dire straights - there have been no blackouts during the winter period, plus the national grid has stand-by facilities.

Further, we still use the £, the Guinea went out decades ago before the UK joined the EU and the denarius was a Roman currency. - or was that an attempt at humour :)

Regards

Mike

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #651 on: February 17, 2017, 01:14:30 PM »
I believe we Europeans are not in a position to assess the UK situation, because of the resentment we feel of being rejected, like a husband whose wife has runaway, not for a younger or richer man, but just out of disenchantment.
You should not feel this way. Britain is not rejecting Europeans, we are rejecting the type of control imposed by EU statesmen. I have many friends and customers throughout Europe. I hope they would respect our standing up for what we believe in, in the same way we would respect them if they did the same.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #652 on: February 17, 2017, 01:49:52 PM »
Roads signs have always been in miles and still are. The silliness is the EU insisted we abandon imperial weights but have never tried to insist we abandon imperial distance measures. The silliness is the population still thinks of buying food in pounds and ounces, and we still ask for half a pound of meat and the  butcher now  mentally converts to grams.
UK and EU exchange produces, thus it makes sense they are expressed in identical units.  We don't exchange roads, so it is less critical that we use a common unit. And anyway it gives a good excuse for overspeeding  ;).


Quote
The silliness is we have a lot of European tourists and lorry drivers so it would make sense to mark road distances in km for their benefit.
As I wrote earlier, it's a non-issue; converting miles to km and back is too simple. Driving on the "wrong" side of the road is a much more serious issue IMO.


Quote
(£, s, d) We did not have to abandon it , we chose to change it. We were not forced.
Yes, I understand, and I believe it was a good thing. Now, I'm sure many people were against it, so they were forced.  Or maybe at the time, people were not so edgy as today, and accepted it without fuss.
And when you say you were forced to adopt metric weight units, it's one element in a deal that covered a huge number of issues. Something you agree to when you sign a contract cannot be described as "being forced". That was part of the deal to access the Common Market. You got something in exchange.


Quote
This is not true. It is illegal to sell food in imperial weights in the UK.
No, it is not;
"You can display an imperial measurement alongside the metric measurement but it can’t stand out more than the metric measurement."
From https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/units-of-measurement
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #653 on: February 17, 2017, 02:27:32 PM »
Abbey, you should not feel like that, because it is not the reason.
I believe you and many other Brits are not the ones who runaway, but there are enough like Boris or Nigel (even Theresa is forced to show this posture) that keep pouring oil into the fire.


Quote
IMHO, there are only two reasons why Brexit occurred,  loss of control of our borders 
I fail to see that.  To my knowledge the migrants have been kept away from the UK territory by the French authorities, with the associated issues you cannot ignore. Whatever new migrants there are in the UK have set foot there via borders that are still under control.

Quote
  If we had just been in a trading and regulating union it would never have happened. 
That's always the same fantasy. UK wants to trade without any counterpart, particularly ignoring the social context. Europe has to deal with people with different histories, different levels of social evolution, even different conceptions of what is a good government. Wanting to trade whilst not trying to establish a common workground is just a big factor of frustration for those who feel "inferior". In fact, that's the exact situation with Russia; see what this has led to.


Quote
  This has nothing to do with rejection of the European  people themselves. 
Of course; it's a rejection of a project the European governments have tried to build, and believed needed the UK to be part of it. Many concessions have been made to overcome the reluctance of British people; that's why many Europeans feel they've been stabbed in the back.


 
Quote
   the UK is very crowded and pressured compared to France.   
  One would be hard pressed to believe that when they hear Boris J. inviting French people to find a fiscal haven in London.

 
Quote
  I think that the EU has moved too quickly and too far for people to assimilate the changes that have taken place.  Politicians have made these changes without consultation and approval and now the people are rebelling. 
It may surprise you, but I wholly agree with that. People are revolting because Europe has become concerned only with trading and monetary issues, at the detriment of social issues.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #654 on: February 18, 2017, 02:59:48 AM »
kubota hv regulato

  It may surprise you, but I wholly agree with that. People are revolting because Europe has become concerned only with trading and monetary issues, at the detriment of social issues.

I think it is much more than that. People are revolting because they feel the EU is no longer a team effort. Instead the strings of power are in the hands of the unelected who think they know what is best for the ordinary people. It is getting close to a dictatorship and you know how we Brits react to them.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Script

Re: Brexit
« Reply #655 on: February 18, 2017, 06:15:55 AM »
Quote
They are initially going to vote all the EU laws into UK law in one block, then after we have left they will change the ones they want to change.
That's some news. Will tell my Japanese lawyer friend to inform his firm that they no longer need to dispatch him (and his family) to the UK, nor the bunch of other lawyers they plan on sending, as the exit transition will be easier than a walk in the park after all... ;)

abbey road d enfer

Re: Brexit
« Reply #656 on: February 18, 2017, 06:23:31 AM »
I think it is much more than that.
Of course, there are more than one reasons to this turmoil.


Quote
   Instead the strings of power are in the hands of the unelected who think they know what is best for the ordinary people.
Looking at the recent events (US, UK, France, Philippines...), I'm not sure the elected actually know better. There are people who know better, generally in the not-so-high strata of the system, struggling to make the system work despite the desperate efforts of elected and designated officials to ruin it.
One would think that a designated official, chosen upon merits and competence, would be a better choice than someone who got elected by making false promises and charming sexagenary housewifes, but in fact, it turns out that the designated are also elected, not by Joe Public, but by their peers.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

ruffrecords

Re: Brexit
« Reply #657 on: February 18, 2017, 06:59:12 AM »
One would think that a designated official, chosen upon merits and competence, would be a better choice than someone who got elected by making false promises and charming sexagenary housewifes, but in fact, it turns out that the designated are also elected, not by Joe Public, but by their peers.

Which is precisely the problem, The current system serves itself. Not at all surprising because they all want to stay in power. The surprising thing is that David Campbell made the fatal mistake of effectively giving the electorate a free vote and then he was surprised to find they were totally pissed off with the way they were governed.  And we know that is true because the great majority of the part of the population that has the most experience of how government has changed in the last 40 years (the over 55s) voted for Brexit.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

micaddict

Re: Brexit
« Reply #658 on: March 16, 2017, 12:04:09 PM »
Short Continental update.

Elections in The Netherlands yesterday.

First in a row in Europe this year.

Blondie not the largest (not even close), let alone the majority.
(13% of votes.)

No Nexit in sight.

Looks like we're not the next domino stone.




DaveP

Re: Brexit
« Reply #659 on: March 16, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
I want the EU to stick together, I think it's the best thing.

But the EU needs to address the issues that have made Populism popular, they also need to do a much better PR job and make themselves less remote.

They should listen to what the people want more and stop trying to enlarge the EU with countries that are not ready for it.

The door to Turkey should be permanently shut, they are on the way to another Islamic dictatorship.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.