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hodad

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/us/politics/north-carolina-governor-roy-cooper-republicans.html

This is the modern GOP.  No sense of fair play, hypocrisy at its highest level, unwavering contempt for the rule of law.  Shameless, scumsucking bat guano. 

All you lousy GOP apologists, you should be utterly ashamed.  Your party is beneath contempt. 
 
Yeah, fuck.  I have to live here.  They've already cost me jobs with HB2.  The political news here looks more like what's happening in Poland and other questionable democracies.  For those outside NC, this is the legacy Jesse Helms east-of-Raleigh faction driving things, with cooperation from the new far right. 
 
GOP is Grand Old Party, which is another name for the Republican party.  Sorry about that.
 
hodad said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/us/politics/north-carolina-governor-roy-cooper-republicans.html

This is the modern GOP.  No sense of fair play, hypocrisy at its highest level, unwavering contempt for the rule of law.  Shameless, scumsucking bat guano. 

All you lousy GOP apologists, you should be utterly ashamed.  Your party is beneath contempt.

The worst part about this is that other states in a similar situation -- GOP lock on the legislature with an outgoing Republican governor to be replaced by a newly-elected Democrat -- will adopt this as a template for further anti-democratic obstruction.

Hey, Republicans, if you support this sort of shit, you suck. That is the whole of the truth. The rest is commentary.

 
living sounds said:
More like North Korea...

I never thought I'd see civil society break down the way it is currently happening all around us...
Like North Korea?  Seriously? Kim Jung Un is holding a US student on espionage charges after he  foolishly tried to steal a poster.  In north Korea they summarily kill political opponents.  (I think Trump should appoint Dennis Rodman as ambassador to N Korea (if we have diplomatic relations with them).
------
If the NC legislature is exceeding their (NC) constitutional authority they will be challenged in the NC courts. This is far from a break down in civil society, it seems more like partisan politics that have been amped up by people refusing to accept the election outcome.

The next event to watch is Monday when the electoral college electors actually vote. There is a bunch of magical thinking from political elites, and hollywoods finest that they can talk electors out of voting their state mandates. Of course if the political elite don't get their wish they may take it up a notch.

I love all the civics that these refuseniks are learning over night. They have flip flopped from wanting to abandon the electoral college, to singing it's praises as they see it as a vehicle to void the election. While this is a bad season for predictions, I predict either way they will be opposed to the electoral college again by tuesday.

Interesting times, the gift that doesn't stop giving... It warms my heart to hear Hollywood liberals reciting the constitution in TV ads.  8)

So far we have enjoyed peaceful transitions of power after the last 40+ presidential administrations. I hope and expect this one will be the same.

JR

PS: The analysis of this seems awfully shallow, and an extension of "everyone from that party sucks". I will only remind you that you are talking about 60+ million fellow citizens. If I wanted more personal attacks I wouldn't block so much stuff on facebook.  Perhaps we can be a little more civil here.
 
JohnRoberts said:
Like North Korea?  Seriously? Kim Jung Un is holding a US student on espionage charges after he  foolishly tried to steal a poster.  In north Korea they summarily kill political opponents.  (I think Trump should appoint Dennis Rodman as ambassador to N Korea (if we have diplomatic relations with them).

A game of words, hyperbole. Obviously, I thought.


If the NC legislature is exceeding their (NC) constitutional authority they will be challenged in the NC courts. This is far from a break down in civil society, it seems more like partisan politics that have been amped up by people refusing to accept the election outcome.

It's part of a trend. Not only in your country, but globally.  The idea that "there is no such thing as society" may prove to have been at the beginning of the end of civilization. The establishment of the government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, for the billionaires Trump has assembled, power grabs like the one in NC and the Orwellian indifference to facts we're witnessing by "fellow citizens" are red-lettered warning signs.
 
"the Orwellian indifference to facts we're witnessing by "fellow citizens""

+1
 
JohnRoberts said:
PS: The analysis of this seems awfully shallow, and an extension of "everyone from that party sucks".

At some point, you just have to own it.  If you support it, you're a part of it.  While NC is a bit extreme, it is not at all unusual.  I'm sure I used the analogy well upstream of the spoiled brat who changes the rules of the game whenever someone else starts winning.  It's not an aberration; it's a trend.  It's new GOP standard operating procedure.  Comes a time when you either you support (implicitly or explicitly) or you leave.  I think we've passed that time now. 
 
hodad said:
At some point, you just have to own it.

+1



Seems to me we've reached an era of new heights of "Oh, I don't agree with that, just the other stuff...."-type excuses. As you said, at some point people have to take responsibility for the parties they support, and if it's not to their liking they should simply leave said parties.
 
living sounds said:
A game of words, hyperbole. Obviously, I thought.
Bomb throwing to shut down thoughtful discussion.  I haven't completely sussed out the situation in NC but I am confident it is not what you guys are describing.

In fact it reminds me a little of when Harry Reid played the nuclear option and changed the rules in the senate for his short term advantage (getting appointments voted on), now that advantage benefits the incoming administration. The NC laws may not look so good after the next election when the pendulum swings the other way as it always does. 
It's part of a trend. Not only in your country, but globally.  The idea that "there is no such thing as society" may prove to have been at the beginning of the end of civilization. The establishment of the government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, for the billionaires Trump has assembled, power grabs like the one in NC and the Orwellian indifference to facts we're witnessing by "fellow citizens" are red-lettered warning signs.
??

Right now I just want to get past Monday without too much drama.

JR
 
hodad said:
At some point, you just have to own it.  If you support it, you're a part of it.  While NC is a bit extreme, it is not at all unusual.  I'm sure I used the analogy well upstream of the spoiled brat who changes the rules of the game whenever someone else starts winning.  It's not an aberration; it's a trend.  It's new GOP standard operating procedure.  Comes a time when you either you support (implicitly or explicitly) or you leave.  I think we've passed that time now.
I own my vote, but I do not feel responsible for every single thing ever done by a republican.  This enhanced ownership cuts both ways, so do you guys own every thing ever done by democrats?

If we had to agree with every single position from all the presidential candidates, there would never ever be one good enough to vote for. 

JR
 
It says a lot that the governor elect was already in effect a four year lame duck governor, he'll have no support from the legislature at all, yet they still feel the need to change the structure of state government before he takes office.  There simply is no governing going on, just power grabs. 
 
I think that's a real issue.  Modern GOP governing philosophy:  "The people have spoken, so we must do our utmost to thwart the will of the people."  That would cover the insanity in NC and the past 6 years of congressional non-governance in DC.  They've largely given up on that linchpin of American governance, compromise.  As I have somewhat jokingly stated before, the only time a Republican "reaches across the aisle" it's to strangle a Democrat. 

It's the increasing blending of the corporations and government.  Yes, it happens under Dems, and it's inevitable in our contemporary world.  But Bush Jr. was far worse, and Trump has taken it to the extreme.  Under Bush it was subtle and slow-growing fascism; with Trump, it's "Hi, we're the fascists, and we're here to help."

Of course, the groundwork for all this was laid longer ago.  When Newt Gingrich was Speaker of the House, he changed rules so that loyalty would be rewarded over seniority.  Conscience was chained to a radiator in a dark corner of the basement; even the interests of one's particular constituency had to be subjugated to the interests of the party.  Not the nation, mind you--the party.

And you have a party that has for decades cultivated the ugliest part of its subjugated underclass, grooming the racism, sexism, and xenophobia in the white working class voter, throwing them the occasional legislative bone in exchange for their unwavering support of the ruling class. 

I could go on, but my oatmeal is ready and I lost my focus. 
 
hodad said:
It's the increasing blending of the corporations and government.  Yes, it happens under Dems, and it's inevitable in our contemporary world.

Well, I think it's litreally inevitable in the US given the laws and the constitution, but I wouldn't extrapolate that inevitability to the rest of even the western world. Though I also think that might not really have been your intent.

hodad said:
But Bush Jr. was far worse, and Trump has taken it to the extreme.  Under Bush it was subtle and slow-growing fascism; with Trump, it's "Hi, we're the fascists, and we're here to help."

I actually gave it some thought a while ago and I don't think "Fascism" is an entirely appropriate characterization yet. Corporatism, nepotism and opportunism for sure, but "Fascism" remains to be seen I think. Perhaps I'm overthinking it.

hodad said:
And you have a party that has for decades cultivated the ugliest part of its subjugated underclass, grooming the racism, sexism, and xenophobia in the white working class voter, throwing them the occasional legislative bone in exchange for their unwavering support of the ruling class. 

I think that's partially true, but we need to be a bit careful when characterizing this, in my opinion. While I think it's certainly true in too large parts of the party, other large parts of the party are probably more guilty of letting it fester rather than actively cultivating it.

I'd say a huge part of it is also the mingling of culture and business, especially with less quality education and a bigger ability to feed one's bias when consuming media.

hodad said:
I could go on, but my oatmeal is ready and I lost my focus.

An acceptable priority for sure. :)
 
I can sympathize with NC living here in Wisconsin. Our Republican government has been doing plenty to crush any opposition.  Their radical gerrymandering in the 2010 redistricting gave them a strong majority. A federal court recently found that it disenfranchised voters by grouping to waste votes so severely (Democratic votes). That was the intent of course, but a court had never before found it illegal.
Hopefully more people become aware of the dirty politics and throw the bums out.
 
living sounds said:
It's part of a trend. Not only in your country, but globally.  The idea that "there is no such thing as society" may prove to have been at the beginning of the end of civilization. The establishment of the government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, for the billionaires Trump has assembled, power grabs like the one in NC and the Orwellian indifference to facts we're witnessing by "fellow citizens" are red-lettered warning signs.

I personally find more warning signs in making broad based assumptions about my fellow citizens. To do so assumes that I am better informed about how they should live their life. That's a dangerous assumption to make, and I would argue that that mentality is much more detrimental to civility/society than the actions of a term-limited administration.

When it comes down to it, our communities, the people we are surrounded by, have much more influence on the quality of our lives than government does. We can assign 2d motives to our neighbors, or talk to them and try to understand their viewpoint.
 
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